Hello. For context I am an American (older) millennial who moved to the Netherlands and have been living here for a few months. I have noticed that most of my Dutch and European colleagues who are my age and older refer to girlfriends/boyfriends but are not married. It’s really interesting to me because I am 30 and at the age where many American friends are getting married.
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I was just wondering – how do you see marriage? If you have been in a relationship that is long term what prevents you from getting married? Are there any incentives financially or in terms of rights for getting married?
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I realise that (generally) the US is still more religious (I think?) than Europe, at least Western Europe, so this may play a part, though I know many people who are atheist and get married. And that many European countries recognise partnerships or the like, while the US doesn’t (for the most part, I googled and it seems that a handful of states do). And we get a tax break for being married. But I just want to hear some peoples thoughts about it as I am really curious 🙂
Edit — follow up question: is a long term relationship that doesn’t involve marriage seen as acceptable in your country? And having children as well? I think for me personally, it would feel normal but people in the US would probably judge/ask a lot of questions.
26 comments
Personally, I do – on the official level. Marriage as an act of personal commitment is something I might want at some point in my life, but I don’t really see a reason why should government be involved.
“If you have been in a relationship that is long term what prevents you from getting married?”
What forces you to get married?
It’s not a matter of being prevented from getting married, it’s a matter of why you would in the first place. Our kids have the right to both their parents no matter if they are the product of a one night stand or a commited relationship. And it’s not like a ring on the fingers make the relationship stronger.
I see marriage as a party celebrating love, but it’s not necessary at all.
there are some advantages of getting married like better taxes, inheritance rights, access to health record of partner etc.
Around half of marriages ends up with divorce
Yes.
I mean if you want to promise your partner to be with them for the rest of your life, go for it. If you want to do so in front of friends and family, go for it.
But I absolutely fail to see why the government needs to be involved or why you should be taxed differently because of it.
Outdated? Maybe. Useless? Maybe. But I still got married to the love of my life because I wanted to. Oh, and the party and honeymoon were also nice perks.
Other than that? Man, I was married way before I signed any actual papers to the fact.
I’m 30 and have no interest in marriage. None of my friends are married but many are in long term relationships with children with no intentions of marriage
Long term relationships and having children without marriage is perfectly acceptable.
When I was younger I thought that marriage was a reactionary institution artificially extending the lifespan of a religiosity that has no place in the modern world.
I kinda still do, but I realize that it can be a sweet thing for people who genuinely care for eachother. And none of my married friends have been to a church since they were kids. But I have also seen people care more about the performance of relationship than their actual relationship. Those are usually catholic.
The state also gives tax incentives for marriage, which is a travesty.
I don’t put much importance in marriage. My parents were never married and have been together for nearly 30 years. Honestly I doubt I will ever get married, that’s also an accepted view here. Long term relationships with no plans for marriage is not out of the ordinary.
Yes absolutely.
At my age (37) a lot of people have kids from their first relationship, and are now in a new relationship with bonus kids and they’re still not married.
But of course there are people who want to get married for various reasons, and they still do. The numbers are just fairly low.
Afaik you get no advantage to being married in Sweden, like tax, rent, mortgage whatever. Marriage in Sweden mostly affects inheritance and joint finances.
>I know many people who are atheist and get married
Of the people who do get married, it is a pretty common to not have a church-recognized/celebrated wedding, but to do all of that at the Civil Registration Office. You can also order their representative to a special wedding location.
Looking something like this then, for example:
[https://katrinkind.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/hochzeitsfotograf-standesamtliche-hochzeit-trauung-standesamt-rathaus-schloss-ismaning-m%C3%BCnchen-rosenheim-civil-wedding_0010.jpg](https://katrinkind.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/hochzeitsfotograf-standesamtliche-hochzeit-trauung-standesamt-rathaus-schloss-ismaning-m%C3%BCnchen-rosenheim-civil-wedding_0010.jpg)
But how exactly you do it is totally up to you, unless the CRO has some limitations that I’m not aware of (“We won’t marry you inside a burning house” or something)
most things that, in the past, could be done only if you were married are now free of this obligation and just need the signature of both people, so other than the religious aspect of the wedding it doesn’t really make sense. Many people still do it but many other don’t and slowly they are coming to the same level of importance, legally speaking. I like the idea of being married to someone but it isn’t really something that make you say I wan’t to do it. It is very expensive and stressful
My parents got married when I was six and it was a total formality as they had been living together for like four years before I was born and their relationship was and still is great , they are just from different religious backgrounds and only had a civil ceremony because religion doesn’t really play a role in their relationship. My mom also kept her maiden name and they had paintings instead of rings.
I don’t really need to get married unless my partner would want to.
The only valid reasons to get married are legal and fiscal reasons.
The rest is fantasyland level.
It’s not as important.
We all have the same healthcare, we don’t need marriage for that. There is just a few things that change.
You can registratie your partnership and then it’s figured out aswell. But there’s still some little differences.
We don’t see a long-term unmarried relationship as less valid than a married one. We don’t expect people to get married at one point, it doesn’t have to be a part of “the steps of life” while I feel that in the US it is. Or that not being married or not wanting to marry is seen as a “red flag”. It’s so weird to me. Who needs to sign a damn contract for loyalty?
Edit: I forgot the “not” in “not wanting to marry”
Most Irish people tend to have a long term relationship before even thinking of getting married, it’s not uncommon to get married in your 30s here after already having a kid or two.
I feel like Americans get married in the much shorter period of time of being together than most of Europe. My parents were almost 10 years together before marriage. A teacher of mine had her honey moon in Cuba and all the American newlyweds there were shocked that they waited 10+ years to marry because most of them only been together less than a year before marriage. (I even have an American cousin that got married less than a year after meeting the guy).
Also divorce is still a pretty long process in Ireland (it’s changing) so people want to really make sure they’re marrying the right person before marriage.
Both not marrying in a long-term relationship and having children out of marriage is completely acceptable here. Many people I know see marriage as something they will get around to eventually, but not as much as a prerequisite for planning their life together and having children. Like my aunt for example got married to her husband a couple years ago and at that time they had been dating for like 15 years and already had 3 children together.
Marriage is something you do to pay less taxes (and for love I guess).
The whole ‘go forth and pro create and fuck your birth control and/or abortions’ is not *just* typically American but kinda stereotyped to be American imho. I mean we have a bible belt of these types of people, and they will be in every country, but I wish it wasn’t.
If you wanna get married, go get married, if you dont, dont. Live and let live.
There is big difference between rural und urban areas. In the country, it’s pretty much like you described it in your last paragraph. Anything that isn’t “married with kids” will be judged in rural areas.
In the city it’s a lot different. You have all sorts of living possibilities. Being in an unmarried couple with kids is accepted. Being gay is accepted, at least by the majority I would guess. Being a couple with no kids is less accepted. Same goes for single mothers. Still a lot of judgment there. Not being in a couple at all seems to be problematic too, especially when you don’t want to change that, unless you are 80+.
Outdated ? Probably a little bit. My generation (mid-twenties) was raised by parents who were not married or divorced. Mariage is not seen anymore like the biggest engagement of your life, half of Mariage end in divorce. I think we considered now that the biggest engagement is having a child.
My parents themselves get married after 10y and 2kids, probably for inheritance reason (+genuine love of course). Nobody judged them, half of the children are born outside mariage in France.
Useless ? There’s some benefits of being married; tax, inheritance, legal recognition of your partnership almost everywhere (if you’re straight), however, most of the small benefits can be acquired with a little bit of paperwork (bank, hospital, etc.).
France also recognize relationship with the PACS (Pacte civil de solidarité = solidarity civil pact). It was seen like the equivalence of gay mariage when it wasn’t yet legal but now it is mostly use by couple as a pre-wedding (at least in my generation) to protect the relationship without being married. The PACS comes with benefits in fiscality and inheritance but not as much as if you are married.
My parents are married, but they did it late.
They were together for over 20 years and had 3 children together before getting married
I think the benefits are with the inheritance. If they weren’t married and one of them would pass away, the house and stuff go to us children, and not to the still-living partner. But now that they are married, we don’t get anything until both are dead.
> I know many people who are atheist and get married.
Marriage is not a religious thing. Here you are only officially and legally married if you sign and deliver the papers to the “Registro Civil” (Civil registry)
Being married in the church is just a fancy ceremony with no legal weight
People here usually go to the city hall or the court to get married as mayors and the judge in charge of the civil registry can marry you
Yes, I never understood why you would voluntarily sign basically a contract to stay with one person for the rest of your life. That just seems crazy to me. My parents only got married because it makes certain things easier, especially when you have kids. But it’s such an outdated concept.
I’m in my late twenties and none of my friends is married or even in a long term relationship and most of them don’t want that, either.
It’s one of the more refreshing things about living in Europe. My American friends (I’m American) are obsessed with marriage. My European friends (I live in Germany) don’t bother with it at all.
You can still have a strong relationship respected by your peers and family without getting married here.
In Eastern Europe there’s a tradition for the wife to get the husband’s surname after marriage, and for the child to get that same name as a sign they’re a family. Even though I’m a man, I’m personally not a fan of the idea of marriage, as I see it as some sort of weird transaction: you “purchase” your wife and put your name on her as a sign of ownership. I personally don’t like that. But my wife did and even insisted on it, so I did it. Her main argument, apart from being more traditional than I am, was that she didn’t want our child to have 2 surnames, or only 1 of our surnames confusing people with regards to our relation to her.
“Marriage”, or generally “strong partnering” between people is a very very old tradition.. maybe even one of the oldest.
Past any government involvement, it can be very spiritually real for people (not to be mixed up with religious spirituality).
Tax breaks too? lol
I’m atheist, my girlfriend is buddhist and my Christian cousin recently married a muslim woman. It’s really not about religion since France is secular, but either for administration or for celebrating love?