I’m a little nervous posting this because I’m not sure if I’m the toxic one in this situation, but I really need advice.
I(F25) have a boyfriend (21M) of 3 years whom I will call A. We study oil painting in art school and we have a class where we are free to choose whatever subject matter we want to paint. Eventually we both find things that interest us, but I don’t feel comfortable with A’s choice. I will try to explain the subject matter he chose to paint as best as I can.
One day we were walking towards the cafeteria and a girl wearing white lacy thigh-highs walked by us. A turned to me after spotting her and said, “Women’s clothes are so pretty.” I agreed and asked what about them makes them pretty to him, and he said something along the lines of, “Because whilst they cover the body, they also reveal the body’s sensuality subtly.” I can only presume that this is what he meant, because he was pretty vague with his words. He then told me he wanted to paint “the feeling of that subtlety.” He also added that he admired how Balthus (an artist whose subject matters are controversial) was able to capture this feeling well in his paintings.
On another day, A told me he watched ‘Lolita’ (the 1962 version), and gushed about how much he liked it. I asked him why, but he didn’t really answer my question, and just kept talking about how aesthetic it was. He also brought up how it was similar to Balthus’ works. I haven’t seen the Lolita movie, but I have read the book some years ago (and was disturbed by it). At this point, I was a little uncomfortable, but not too much, because I was sure what he liked were the general vibes of the book and paintings.
Fast forward to yesterday, I saw him looking at photos of young women in revealing clothing and provocative positions (not porn) and asked him why he was looking at these. He said he needed them as reference for his paintings. So I playfully offered to pose for him, struck a few poses, and said “What do you think?” To my surprise, he said my poses looked too forced and unnatural, and “You don’t have anything lacy or feminine anyway.” Sure, my style is very androgynous, and leaning towards masculine, so I guess it makes sense why he didn’t ask me to pose. Still, I felt kind of sad when he said that. When I told him I felt hurt that he was looking at these images, he said “It’s not that different from porn.” I also don’t really understand why I am upset, since I have no problem with him watching porn. This just feels different somehow, like he’s fixated.
I have brought this up a couple more times with A yesterday and today, but his replies are the same, “This is for reference only.” He has finished an abstract painting on this subject already and the teacher thinks it’s great and wants him to do more. The subject of the painting is very clearly a pair of lacy panties with supple-looking thighs.
Right now I’m honestly devastated. I feel like A has done nothing wrong, and I think I’m very immature for feeling hurt by this. Please give me some advice on how to get over this. Thank you for reading.
TL;DR: My(25F) boyfriend(21M) looks as images of girls in suggestive poses and clothing because he needs them as references for his paintings. I don’t think he’s done anything wrong, yet I feel hurt. Please help.
Update: I finally found a good time today to talk with my boyfriend without any distractions. I told him I felt jealous because he was looking at suggestive images of other women, even if it was for his art. Then I told him I felt uncomfortable about the fact that he was so interested in Balthus and the Lolita movie. He was very defensive at first, repeating that he was only using these things as references for his art, and that he doesn’t understand why I should be jealous. This attempt became a fight, and both of us had to separate and go somewhere else to cool down.
A few hours later we talked on the phone, and I told him he didn’t do anything wrong, but I needed reassurance from him that he still found me attractive. I then said I felt sort of cast to the side when he favoured photos of other women to use as inspiration for his art. He finally understood, and told me that he didn’t know I felt that way. He said he really was just using the photos as a reference, and what he really wanted to paint was the subtle relationship between clothes and skin. He also clarified that he likes the Lolita film and Balthus for the same reasons, not because the clothes were on young girls. He said he searched up photos because it was just faster and less effort than me posing for him, that he did it for efficiency.
There is one discrepancy I noticed though. In the beginning, he told me he didn’t ask me to pose because I didn’t have lacy clothes, but later on, he said it doesn’t matter what kinds of clothes the women in the photos were wearing because he just wanted to see the relationship between the skin and the clothes. So my question is, if the type of clothes don’t matter, then why didn’t he just ask me for my pictures? I asked him this, and he said I wasn’t there with him when the inspiration to paint struck him, and if he asked me for photos, it would be photos I took and might not be the kind he needed, so he just searched for pictures elsewhere instead. I told him I still wished he could have asked me anyway. He then reassured me that he loves me and he is sorry for not telling me about this much sooner. And I apologised for doubting him and misunderstanding him.
So I guess we’re both okay again. Thank you for everyone who took the time to comment and give me advice. I was so scared and reading everyone’s comments really helped me to think about how to talk to him. I hope you all have a good rest of your day, and thank you again!
13 comments
Sounds like you may feel that his attention is not focused on you.
Humans are attracted to some types of humans.
He’s also an artist and need to view what he wants to paint.
Have a conversation regarding both what you like and dislike regarding multiple subjects.
Be mature ans respectful when you do, this will help build an understanding of eachother.
Find middle grounds and be teamplayers instead of you vs me.
Sounds like you’re jealous you might not fit into the idea of femininity he is trying to explore.
Any adult man with such an interest in Lolita is a big big red flag. The 20 year old who raped me when I was 15 also was really into Lolita.
Not that this guy’s a rapist, but he’s a really shitty boyfriend imo. Just because you try to sound like an aristocrat, you shouldn’t tell your girlfriend that other women are just more appealing and more sexy than her. That’s hella weird.
he sounds immature, reminds me of male photographers who want you to take it off for like, the art, man. i think maybe the age gap plays into it
Honestly male artists who become fixated on young women are immature, derivative and a huge red flag. The idea of sexualising young childlike women for ‘art’ which, in his own words, is not that different from porn is pretty gross. It sounds like your issue is twofold – you feel insecure that he’s fixated on young childlike hyper-feminine girls (which doesn’t fit your aesthetic) and also you have a distaste for lolita and that aesthetic because it makes you uncomfortable (which is very understandable).
Him seeing this as great art is probably because he’s too immature to understand that sexualising children is not art it’s just gross – that’s something you can try to talk to him about but it may be difficult because he sounds pretty far up his own arse in that regard. The insecurity though, that’s something you can definitely seek reassurance on. Tell him that this fixation makes you feel insecure because you know your aesthetic doesn’t match these girls, and it’s making you wonder if this is something he feels he’s missing. Don’t be accusatory, be vulnerable and ask him for reassurance. How he responds will be very telling – if he responds with anger or annoyance he’s not a great guy, if he responds with compassion and empathy then that should help you get over the insecurity!
The Lolita stuff you need to decide how important that is to you – if I were I’d tear him a new one for thinking Lolita was ‘aesthetic’ but it’s totally up to you
I don’t usually say things this blunt when giving advice… because there’s nothing wrong with it in theory, sure… but…A 21 year old male “exploring” the subtle sensuality of young girls sounds weird. I get that he’s an artist, but… women of age also have subtle sensuality.
I once started an “Independent Film Club” in order to be able to use the school’s resources to hunt down and show explicit/violent/banned small films and hentai to my buddies.
I also was able to easily espouse that we were “exploring the raw corners of the film industry across the world that are deemed too explicit to be allowed to circulate through American audiences”. I even made feedback paperwork to discuss our feelings around each film to further drive the bullshit home, but at the end of the day me and my buddies just wanted to watch raunchy films together. (Forgive me, my late teen-self was a special sort of dumbass. I’m glad I’ve grown miles away from that person now but…It gives me insight.) While that could be the case here, he could just be an art-head and genuinely will move onto a new subject once this has been explored.
I think the most important thing for you to do is to pay attention to your gut. Jealousy is one thing, and is natural; but if you keep seeing these red flags and your gut is telling you something is wrong; I would start to distance myself. “The Gift of Fear” is a fantastic book that someone your age should read. Basically it talks about how our gut feeling is part of hundreds of thousands of years of evolution and about how we tend to ignore it in fear of being ‘rude’ or ‘impolite’; when it’s a valuable tool.
It’s up to you, but do pay attention to that feeling.
Your feelings are valid, feeling sad or upset or however you are feeling is okay! However, I don’t recommend you burn out his light. He’s finding his creativity and it’s healthy for him to explore this through his art.
However…I think his words with you were really harsh (telling you that you looked unnatural posing) he should’ve said something kind, or said nothing at all.
At the end of the day, perhaps you want to be his muse. Maybe you want him to take inspiration from you, a woman who is not only his girlfriend but a woman who can be feminine and desired.
I think that porn is different because it’s surface level, it’s entertainment.
But this is deeper, and you can tell it’s deeper because it’s the focus of his art. Which is more emotional and deeper than “just porn”
I recommend you sort out your feelings with this. Even if you can’t quite out your finger on it. Just write out your feelings, or something that helps me is venting in my car (to myself) act like you’re on a phone call with someone you love and trust and just vent (if writing isn’t your thing)
You will be able to sort your problems yourself (most likely)
Also, a great way to open your mind is by watching the movie he liked, or by trying to better understand his art/ inspiration. Take inspiration from those things and tune into your lacy femininity… be his muse. Then share this with him. He’s young, he’s probably not as emotionally mature as you are so be straightforward with him. Tell him you’re feeling vulnerable and you want to be apart of his art
Even if it’s just your thigh with lacy tights.
(btw I totally recommend buying a cute lingerie set from shein) they are true to size and it’s great quality + affordable
The lolita book was meant to be disgusting, the whole lolita aesthetic thing is a bit weird taking that into consideration, however we do have to consider that many things can make an aesthetic, english is not my first language so if by “young women ” you are refering to under 18 then that is pretty weird and a valid concern.Also, the lolita aesthetic is not a new thing I remember watching many videos criticising it, maybe look some commentary about it to understand what he is going for, for me it sounds like it could be just a one project thing and he is trying to be -idk “bold” in his art and thinks he is pushing the envelope in some way, while he sounds super pretentious to me I have felt a similar way with other subjects so I can see him doing that kind of research with the intention of creating something excentric without considering how weird it kinda is to look pictures of what I will assume are highschoolers.
My advice is to try to tell him how odd is for you too see him observing that pictures and trying to get the sensuality out of it, what he is doing is not a crime really, its just odd and overall a valid thing to dscuss seriously as her partner.
Edit: the its not different from porn comment could be interpreted in many ways so hopefully he didn’t mean that both activities are the same for him rather than looking at that being other thing you shouldnt have a problem with.
Literally just from the way he speaks, this dude sounds insufferable. And like every amateur “photographer” / *artiste* who tries to get girls to take their clothes off to “appreciate their form.”
That said, as long as he’s being respectful of his subjects, there’s nothing wrong with an artist portraying the human body; it definitely sounds like he’s trending toward the sensual / sexual, but again, nothing wrong or unusual about that unless he’s looking at or portraying underage girls, or using a person’s image without their consent or in a way that makes them uncomfortable.
It’s what is in his heart that matters, and I have no way of knowing what that is. Males, in general, at this age, are at the peak of hormonal desire. Mothers I have talked to in the past told me their sons admit to think about sex every waking minute, so what you are saying comes as no surprise.
What other subjects does he paint? Are women’s bodies his favorite?
Truly I think this might be an instance where you have to trust your gut. Whether or not this kind of appreciation on his part is okay isn’t really the question, it’s whether or not its okay with you. Not in a way that he needs your permission to pursue his weird creepy interest but in the way where you ask yourself if this is something you can put aside.
Beyond any of that, it’s concerning that he doesn’t listen when you try to communicate your concern. You’ve talked about this with him a bunch from the sounds, and about his relationship to your femininity and sexuality, and it sounds like he’s blowing off your concerns at every turn. That’s what I would be most worried about long term, that’s not supportive partner behavior!
I do want to also say, it’s weird. It’s creepy, it’s the kind of thing that even if he never acts on it with someone underage, it’s still hanging there. I know exactly the kinds of ‘sensuality’ he’s talking about and it’s misogynistic and harmful. Girlhood is a special experience that is too often cut short by the leering eyes of men, imagine if his art takes off and teen girls see it, isn’t there enough pressure to be more sensual and sexual at that age already? I would be wary of someone who pursues a controversial topic without taking the time to really understand the nuance of why it might be considered harmful. Just from like, a harm reduction standpoint. you seem really sweet, you answer every comment here and have really valid concerns, and personally from one masc-presenting artist who used to date a creep to another, I think you deserve a little better than what this guy is handing you.
Your boyfriend sounds like he likes little girls sis, might want to check on that
As a woman artist who has known a lot of male artists like this and dated some.. I think you should consider breaking up and moving on from this relationship, trust your gut and red flags.