Me and my buddies got some McDonald’s and parked in a Harris Teeter almost empty parking lot at like 10pm to eat and a dude(I’m assuming off duty officer?) in a loud pickup truck said “this is not a car meet, you guys need to leave” and he just stared and waited for us to finish our food and leave then left.
Mind you we all had our cars turned off and there wasn’t a “no loitering” sign nearby. Were we in the wrong?
23 comments
I feel like that guy was just an a-hole
No. And if he’s off duty he can call the on duty cops if it’s that big a deal.
Technically you may have been loitering, but the guy just sounds like a jerk.
>he just stared and waited for us to finish our food and leave then left
I feel like if you were loitering, then this guy was definitely loitering and also harassing random people he has no authority over.
Ask the locals what problems have been going on in these situations (nighttime, parking lots of closed businesses).
If there is no sign saying no loitering, no closed gates/fences, you were in your car in a place where a reasonable person would expect a car to access (parking lot), and this guy was not affiliated with the business or on duty law enforcement, he can go pound sand.
If he was off duty, he can call the on duty cops. He’s probably the jerk of the department and dispatch would tell him, “sure Bill, we’ll send someone over…”
He’s a microdick who was just bullying you around. B
Maybe technically, but random people in trucks aren’t law enforcement. That said, I’d be careful challenging people like that because they are the type of people who carry a pistol around hoping to get a chance to be a hero.
If you weren’t patronizing the business that the lot belonged to and the owner of the lot did not want you there, then yes you were loitering technically speaking.
Though I don’t think the person telling you to leave had any say in the matter unless they were the owner or a public official working in an official capacity. Which apparently the person you encountered identified as neither of.
You did the right thing by finishing your food, and not escalating with that douche-nozzle of a person.
Were you in the wrong? not really, in the sense that you weren’t causing any trouble.
That being said, owners (and their representatives) of private property (including grocery store parking lots) can ask you to leave, and you can be criminally charged with trespassing if you refuse.
Note that the lack of a “no loitering” sign does not necessarily imply that loitering is permitted.
It’s very likely that either:
* The dude in the truck was an employee of either Harris Teeter or the commercial real estate company that Harris Teeter leases the building/ parking lot from.
* or, if he was an off-duty officer as you suspect, it’s possible that Harris Teeter or the real estate company who owns the property has previously asked the local police to discourage loitering in their parking lot.
In either case, if you don’t immediately leave when he asks you to, you’re now trespassing. They could have/ likely would have called the police if you hadn’t moved along after a few minutes. Police probably would have given you another chance to move along before actually charging you with anything. But all that largely depends on what kind of mood they’re in at the time.
Edit 2, which is a simplification of the below Edit 1: Any time any person (whether employee, customer, or loiterer) is on a business’s property, there is some (small) potential for that person to either cause or be otherwise involved in a situation where a person is hurt, or property is damaged, or something else happens that results in the business being viewed in a negative light. All of those above listed situations are a potential major pain in the ass (and financial cost) to the business and/ or their liability insurance company. Therefore, it is common practice for businesses to discourage people from hanging out on their property unless they are there for some legitimate business purpose (ie, employee or customer).
Edit 1: hypothetical scenario to illustrate why a property owner may discourage loiterers even if those loiterers aren’t causing any problems:
* A week after you eat your Mickey Dee’s in the parking lot, some other knuckleheads decide to do some sick burnouts in the empty parking lot late at night.
* Oops! They hit a pedestrian in the parking lot! Maybe a customer, maybe the employee who rounds up all the shopping carts, maybe it’s you, back again eating a sandwich there. Doesn’t really matter who it is.
* The pedestrian has a broken spine! They need medical treatment that collectively costs $700,000. They also can’t work for a couple years while they recover. They also need therapy, because this whole thing’s been very traumatic for them. Total costs, including all treatment and lost wages, come out to $1 million.
* Fortunately, the person who got hit has medical insurance to cover the surgeries and therapy and everything, and long-term disability insurance to cover the lost wages.
* But now, those insurance companies want to get their money back! so they all sue the guy who was doing the sick burnouts for the $1 million, because he’s the moron who caused the situation.
* Good news! Burnout guy has car insurance. Bad news! his coverage is capped at $250k, and he’s only got $50k in other assets. So the most anyone can get out of him is $300k. Still $700k short.
* Hmmm, anyone else involved in this mess who might be able to make up the difference? I know, how about Harris Teeter and the owner of the property! They’ll have a nice fat liability insurance policy. We’ll sue them too.
* Harris Teeter/ their insurance company says “you dummies, how’s it our fault that some imbecile did something stupid in our parking lot in the middle of the night?”
* Lawyers for injured pedestrian’s insurance companies request the past month of surveillance footage from Harris Teeter. That footage shows you parked out there at 10PM, eating a sandwich, clearly not going in to buy anything, and employees not having any problem with it. Aha, they say! Harris Teeter tolerates loiterers! They’re practically inviting people to use their parking lot however they please in the middle of the night!
* That’s ridiculous, of course, but Harris Teeters’ insurance company concludes that the legal fees to deal with the lawsuit might end up costing more than the amount they’re actually being sued for, so they offer to settle out of court for $500k instead.
* Everything’s ended up pretty much fine for everyone, but Harris Teeter’s insurance company raises their rates, and adds a clause their policy that says “You must be an asshole to loiterers so we don’t go through anything like this again”.
He’s a microdick who was just bullying you around to feel like a “real man”
Sorry you had to encounter that. If it happens again, ignore them and stay there until they have a microdick tantrum. They hate being ignored.
Legally speaking it depends on any ordinances in the state or even municipality you are in. Most loitering laws have been reworked because they were extremely broad and pretty much infringing on the first amendment. Usually if you are going to get popped for loitering it would be in addition to some other ordinance related to criminal activity. Also there would need to be a sign probably, since a reasonable person would expect to find a car in a parking lot that is not blocked off.
If they guy works for Harris Teeter and is telling you to leave on their behalf that changes things a bit, since they can ask you to leave and if you don’t that could be trespassing which you can get popped for a lot more easily.
All that is to say, no cop is going to arrest people parked in an empty parking lot eating McDonald’s for loitering, and if they do, no DA is going to press charges over it. That would be insane. This is hardly a situation that requires or calls for law enforcement to get involved, since you weren’t obstructing anything or causing any problems. There would have to be something else going on. If you do see someone engaged by law enforcement for loitering it is very likely they are disrupting something, like standing in front an entrance asking people for money or just intentionally getting in people’s way for some other reason.
My first guess is that you’re a person of color and that douche was a racist dick.
Maybe technically in the least meaningful sense, but that guy just sounds like a dickhead.
Not a lawyer
Unless they announce themselves as a police officer or the property owner (or acting on the behest of the property owner as is the case with private security), you can ignore them.
The guy was probably just an asshole.
The guy was harassing you by the way. Unless they announce themselves, they cannot claim to act with police authority. So, until they say, “I’m a cop”, it’s the same as anyone other random person telling you to leave which is to say it carries no legal or moral authority.
A parking lot is essentially a public space until you’re told it’s not either directly or by posting (signs). If the owners of that lot don’t want people there after hours, it’s as easy as putting up a sign that says lot closed from time-time.
That said, there’s no good reason to look for trouble. You did the right thing. No need to antagonize crazy people. In all honesty, you would have been within your rights to call the cops.
Maybe he didn’t want you around to witness his meth dealing.
I do private security for a job. There is a large parking lot at my work and people try to use it for various things. I personally don’t care if someone is just trying to chill on the lot, eat their food, meet their friends, etc. but my client does not like it so I have to go ask them to leave.
Sounds like the guy in the truck was also doing security for the place. Sorry if he seemed like a dick. If I owned the lot, I would let people eat here all day.
Hiw were you parked? If you all were in spots then no big issue. If you guys had formed a circle then that could’ve been an issue. Loitering is weird legal area. Some places only consider it loitering if you are trying to sell something without permission, someone pushing a mixtape for example, or asking for goods and services that go beyond or realm, example a guy came in asking if we could donate a bunch of old stock to him or at a step discount.
You already got some good answers. But why do people get pissy about the parking lots at 10pm with 1 car there?
Me and my friends (like 2/3) would have to do this exact same thing when COVID made all the dinning areas close down. Park in an empty lot across from Wendy’s, pop the trunk and sit and chat over your meal for like 10 min
Idk why but I swear we were kicked outta separate lots about 4 times (doesn’t sound like much but just makes you wonder)
ask if they own the business, if not ask if law enforcement (proof) if no tell the guy to mind his business and get fucked
First off, fuck that dude and secondly…I don’t have a second point so imma reiterate **fuck that dude**
If it’s private property, they can ask you to leave.
Most likely not.
You were technically on private property. Loitering typically only applies to public spaces.
They may claim something about, “without having necessary business there, loiter and loaf upon the premises after being requested to leave by any peace officer or by any person lawfully in charge of such premises.”
Again, that’s public spaces, but if it does happen, the response is, “I appreciate your concern. We’re finishing our meal before I make a purchase at Harris Teeter.” Go buy a pack of gum. Necessary business doesn’t set a threshold.
Disclaimer: not an attorney, just had to deal with cops