Sometimes when I speak to people from other countries I’m struck by how earnest they are. And it strikes me we have this culture where being too earnest is made fun of, you’ve got to be irreverent, laugh at stuff, not take yourself too seriously.
For example when I went to uni, the international students stood out because they always came to class prepared to seriously engage with the study material and participate frequently. Whereas the British students would snigger at stuff, and participate reluctantly, you’d either speak when forced to or put your hand up a couple of times max. I think we exasperated the international students.
Even see it in work team meetings now, nobody wants to be seen as too keen or speak up too much. And everyone knows British work team bonding is based on making fun of your boss, clients, etc.
Maybe others have had different experiences but do you think we have trouble culturally being earnest?
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Yes, generally we do. Taking anything too seriously is sneered at. I do think it is an issue but at the same time life is easier if you view it as a constant piss take.
I also agree with the foreign students at uni point, they viewed british students half in disbelief and half with disdain with the lack of serious focus.
It’s very important
> example when I went to uni,
Some of that is because Universities opened up to many more people a few years ago. Rather than seeing it as a way for further education and studying a subject, you’ve got large swathes of what are basically school kids away from home for the first time spending three years avoiding getting a job and partying.
A Korean boss I had internationally once said to me that, in his opinion, when asked to do something Brits would moan and gripe but get the job done, whereas Americans would cheerfully and enthusiastically agree but not get round to it.
Any time I’m earnest or sincere I am asked if I’m taking the piss / being sarcastic.
I think people don’t like sentimentality because its hard to jump between serious back to your normal jokey self. Like if I say something very genuine and deep, its like do we stay in this serious moment forever or jump back to a laugh? If you’re always in a simple comedic state you don’t have to worry about a shift in tone.
For whatever reason as well, masculinity and intelligence are not tied here, in fact growing up it was seen as being intelligent and passionate was a feminine trait which I never understood. Real men were brick layers or miners, you go to work and you earn money and bring it home to “the wife”, not sitting in stuffy universities pondering life. A lot of this culture has passed down onto kids. I don’t know if thats the same in mainland Europe. I know in the US a lot of more Southern “rednecks” look down on liberal colleges.
Bit of selection bias there – students who have made the effort to study internationally are more likely to be more engaged (Plus the added pressure of it’s probably quite expensive, and want to make the most of it).
More generally, not sure. There is a tendency to downplay things you have a serious interest in but not sure how much that is a British tendency vs a general human condition.
Work wise I tend to notice the opposite, though that could be that the countries/cultures that most of my non-british colleagues come from seem to favour deferring to authority more than questioning it.
I think it starts in high school. The children who are enthusiastic and earnest in their keenness to learn end up being bullied and named-called into silence. I was an enthusiastic learner at school but I chose carefully which classes I would put my hand up and ask questions in based on who I shared the classroom with. I had my earnest enthusiasm bullied out of me in favour of bleak cynicism. Its much cooler to sit at the back and make sarcastic comments and begrudgingly complete the bare minimum than it is to put your hand up and ask questions with a keen and enquiring mind and do extra work to find out more.
That carries on into work life, particularly if you work in an environment where you aren’t following your own passions and making your own money but working for “The Man”. Anyone showing enthusiasm for their job gets looked upon favourably by management but called a brown nose by the rest of their colleagues.
Its pretty toxic.
We don’t take things seriously in general. I like it. Americans are very earnest, it makes me feel uncomfortable (and I grew up there). We are more genuine.
Yes but I find that people here still work well enough for it not to matter.
I literally have a mate called Keen-o, because he’s eager and stuff.
>Even see it in work team meetings now, nobody wants to be seen as too keen or speak up too much
I hate people who speak up in Teams. The ones who say ‘can you just go over what would happen in [very rare or totally irrelevant] case’.
and the worst are the ones who ask question in ‘any other business’ – just as everyone is sighing with relief that this stupid waste of a work day is over, someone wants to talk about something that only affects him and/or his client and no one else cares about <I’m looking at you Brendan, just shut it>
Cycnicism is a British trait, and a strong one at that. To sneer at things, often irationally, is to be British.
I’ve never been earnest. But that name wasn’t given to me :p
Your uni experience was 2 different things.
The sniggering was childish behaviour.
The not asking questions, is the Great British reserve.
I think we have a very large band of lazy cunts in the middle of our society.
My son got into a very selective grammar school recently.
Entry is all based on merit (exams) and only a small percentage make it.
We went to an induction thing last night. About 70% of the kids there were Asian (Indian or thereabouts – a few Chinese).
Now; if we assume that Indians aren’t just born intelectually superior; then how can we account for a group who represent a small minority of the wider population being so very prevalent in this school?
It has to be drive and parental engagement.
As we drove home, I looked out of the car window at all the 11 year old white kids hanging around the shops and riding electric scooters on the road with no helmet and a phone in one hand.
Just a huge pile of low aspiration, maybe a bit entitled, lazy fuckers who let their kids ride scooters on the road with headphones in.
“Oh I can’t control him! He’s just like his father was!”. “Well ‘e bought the scooter ‘imself wiv ‘is christmas money! What am I supposed to do?”
Those kids will probably end up in middling jobs, earning middling money, moaning about the price of everything and making excuses for their own lazy kids. Just going to whatever school is nearby and never really thinking about it beyond doing the bare minimum.
I reckon that’s about 60% of the British population. A few who are way worse. A few who are way better; but most are just….meh…
Now; before you call me a snooty prick; don’t worry. I’m just like you. A lazy white piss-taker with no ambition.
My kid would probably be the same if it wasn’t for my secret weapon.
Asian wife!
We don’t need to be earnest, we’re British. Sneering and sarcasm is what we do. (But we also get the job done)
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*For those that didn’t get the sarcasm in the first sentence and berated me in DM, I was being sarcastic. I’m British. It’s what I do.
I wouldn’t say we have trouble with it, but it isn’t our preferred approach to things. I’m always happier going into a meeting where I know there’s going to be some levity and hopefully a good laugh or too. I think it helps us trust other, helps us determine we are on the same page, makes us value each other.
There are places where it’s not appropriate, of course, and I respect that, but where it is appropriate, why not?
Have you seen the shite we have to put up with from our leaders, politicians, press, society and Ed-fucking-Sheeran? If we had to deal with all of this seriously we would all top ourselves. Gallows humour is the only thing getting us through the day.
*1940: Somewhere in Southern England*
Boss: “We’ve just got the call lads. Jerry are flying in over Dover.”
Pilots: *Groans* “For god sake, we’ve just got out tea and toast. I was looking forward to a nice bit of raspberry jam.”
Boss: “Come on. They’ll be some more waiting for you on your return.
*Pilots go off and trounce the Luftwaffe*
Pilots: “Where’s our toast?”
My experience at uni was people were pretty serious in class. Might depend on the uni and subject?
I don’t know how anyone would cope at work without humour . . . bit of a laugh-or-cry situation . . .
I am a foreigner living in Brazil. From time to time, I have worked with British people. I never experienced any sniggering. Actually, a lot of times, I and the Brazilian staff were very interested in British culture, and the British coworkers answered all our questions about the UK earnestly and without being condescending. (There are a lot of fans of British culture in Brazil, at least among my friends.) The only problem–and its not really a problem–is that I noticed that a few British people would take the piss out of us when they were drunk, but man oh man, they would get so defensive if we returned the banter, and took the piss out of them. But that was the minority, not the majority.
Currently in Canada and went for a drink with colleagues on Wednesday this week. I’m the only Brit but also have a few French colleagues, a Spanish colleague and the rest were Canadian or American. The Europeans have all worked at our head office in London.
We all agreed (even the North Americans) that our office in Canada would be better if we were more like the London office and took things less seriously. There is no banter here, no subtle jokes, it’s so fucking formal and professional all the time and it just creates this fake atmosphere where everyone is uncomfortable. Nobody is enjoying the super professional vibe, from senior to junior staff everyone is uncomfortable about saying the ‘wrong thing’. It’s like HR is looming over us in case we say a joke.
Our flippant attitudes (that the French also share) are a fucking blessing. People here don’t speak up if they get stuck, they don’t ask for help, they don’t directly call out errors. They *all* want it to change but they don’t know how. I insist we all get drunk together more often
I’m a foreigner (southern European) living in the UK. I have been told by two different line managers in two different jobs that I am “too passionate” about what I do. I still don’t understand why that is a problem.
Wasn’t he the fastest milkman in the west?
I personally don’t think Brits have difficulty in being earnest, I just think that the British idea of seriousness and what constitutes a “big deal” (for want of a better term) is different to that of a lot of other cultures. In my workplace, for instance, people arse around all day, but they still take the work seriously and endeavour to do a good job. The principles of being laid back and diligent are not generally considered to be mutually exclusive, like they perhaps are in other countries.
Maybe I’m justifying my own cynicism here but I honestly think that our snarky, disinterested, piss taking attitude is largely a result of freedom of thought combined with life experience.
Rarely is an intelligent and/or educated person in this country patriotic, or religious, or particularly conformist.
If you’ve gone through the state school system, you know its largely a waste of time which leaves you poorly equipped to deal with reality.
If you’ve been to university you know that very few people progress in their area of choice and that at least half of the degrees out there are basically unnecessary for the occupation they have created an unnecessary barrier to.
I’ve you’ve worked for private sector, you know you are making money for people who already have more than enough while you scrape by.
If you work for public sector, you know that you are stuck in a grossly inefficient and ineffective system that’s close to impossible to change.
If you work for third sector you know that you are being exploited by the state because of your love for other people and your desire to do good.
We’re right to be fucking cynical. It’s just our state is advanced enough to realise they don’t need to invest much in controlling our thoughts and attitudes because we have such limited ability or motivation to affect change anyway.