I am always surprised to see American presidents officially named with shortened first names, like Bill (William) Clinton or Joseph (Joe) Biden. In France, we had a scandal when a guy called President Emmanuel Macron ‘Manu’ (and it would have been seen as disrespectful to call Nicolas Sarkozy ‘Nico’). Are these nicknames common and even formally accepted? And when do this nicknames take hold? (Childhood, adolescence, adulthood?). Is the nickname on official papers? Do people who do not know Robert call him Bob directly or do they wait to know him?
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Nobody cares 99.95% of the time.
Usually we go with how the person introduces themselves.
Personally, my shortened name is on all kinds of legal docs, because as far as I’m concerned it’s my name.
Generally, it’s the person themselves who wants to be called by a shortened name, and then most people generally respect it.
No one cares here unless you call a kid by their shortened name with their strict mom nearby.
When you have decided that you’d like to go by a shortened version of your name. But in the vast, vast majority of cases, the legal name would not be changed.
Clinton and Biden both go by those names in their day-to-day life, so it’s normal. If they didn’t, I could see some people kicking up a fuss depending on the context.
Whenever you want.
>Do people who do not know Robert call him Bob directly or do they wait to know him?
If Bob introduces themselves as Bob everyone calls them Bob.
If Robert Introduces themselves as Robert people call them Robert.
If Robert like to be called Bob by some and Robert by most they will introduce themselves as Robert, and tell those select few “call me Bob”
It really is that simple.
We aren’t as hung up on naming conventions as much of Europe is.
No one cared that William Clinton went by Bill for instance.
However the person chooses to be called, is acceptable.
We had a president in the 50s, Dwight David Eisenhower, who was nicknamed “Ike,” which doesn’t even make sense! When he was running for office people wore buttons that read: “I like Ike!”
Yeah we’re pretty casual about names.
Here’s a fun one – for a while, Jeb Bush was Governor of Florida. His actual name is John Ellis Bush – Jeb is just his initials. So all I think when someone says Jeb Bush is John Ellis Bush Bush.
Usually it’s up to the person as to how they want to be referred. President Biden’s given name is Joseph, but he goes by Joe and that is how people normally call him. The former president, on the other hand, preferred Donald over Don or Donnie, so people called him Donald. Some people do just have nicknames as their given names though. Famously, there’s a basketball player named Jimmy Butler; at a press conference after a particularly good game someone was like “you were a real man out there, that was JAMES Butler” and he interrupted to be like “no my name literally is Jimmy” which was pretty funny.
It can be disrespectful/rude/insulting to call someone by a diminutive, but usually only if they don’t want to be called that or in a formal context. Like even for Joe Biden, if you were at a formal event where you’d be expected to call him “President Biden”, it probably would not do to be like “hey Joe how’s it going”, you know?
Whenever you feel like it. Some official forms may ask for your full name.
Nicknames don’t usually show up on official documents, but they could in some cases.
Beyond that though, people just often go by shortened names here. Going by a nickname is seen as more personable and makes you seem more approachable/relatable, which is seen as good in a society that enshrines the appearance of egalitarianism. There’s even a negative correlation between name length and income level here, which seems to be an artifact of that. For example, Mikes make more money on average than Michaels.
The person in question must approve of the shortening. If a Joseph does not want to be called Joe, you don’t call them Joe. If a Joseph wants to be called Jay for short, then the shortening of their name is “Jay”, not “Joe”.
>Do people who do not know Robert call him Bob directly or do they wait to know him?
Wanted to address this separately, the US can be pretty informal with first names — my direct reports call me by my first name, and I call my boss by his first name just for example, and the only person who I refer to with title + surname is my doctor — so usually if someone wants to be Rob or Bob or Bobby instead of Robert, they’ll just introduce themselves as such. But also there are Roberts who just want to be called Robert; my friend is married to one of those, she calls him Robert, his mom calls him Robert. Not really a formal or informal thing with him, he just likes his name it seems.
You usually call someone by how they introduce themselves. If someone introduces himself as Robert it would be kinda rude to call him Bob.
That being said, I don’t think we would have so much patience if Biden were to insist people call him “Joseph” rather than “Joe.” The President is meant to be an office holder in a republic, not some lofty lord we have to grovel to. It’s a bit gauche to take yourself so seriously, I think.
My name is similar in structure to Allen.
If someone were to shorten my name to the equivalent of “Al” they would get a shank to the throat.
3+ syllables? Sure. Shorten away. But if you are so lazy that you can’t say a 2 Syllable name, then stop speaking entirely.
Yes it’s an overreaction, yes I’m possessive about my name (Mispronunciations are fine), no I’m not sorry about it.
People pick their own name. Just call people by whatever name they call themselves. My father’s name is Timothy but he introduces him self as Tim and that’s what everyone calls him. Some people use their middle or surname for a first name, some people just have a random name they go by for some reason that isn’t their legal name.
Calling him Timothy would be seen as overly formal in 90% of cases, and calling him Timmy would be seen as sort of a low key insult.
Cheat sheet:
friends and family, your level of employment, informal, or children: call them what you feel like, change if they ask you.
Your boss, formal, or anyone that’s old and likes rules: assume formal, shorten if they ask you too.
TL;DR Elongated Muskrat to you, Elon Musk to his peers, Ol’ Muskie to his friends
Ca va Manu?
Literally, in the US, I’d think nothing of saying “what’s up, bill” or “what’s up, joe” to either of them.
The thought of someone addressing Bill Clinton as “William” actually makes me laugh.
Wait til you hear about Jeb Bush! Lol
The only people who call me by my full first name or by Mr. LastName want to sell me something.
You get called by what you want to be called. If I’m introduced as “Michael”, I’d say, “Call me Mike”. Which would be weird because Michael isn’t my name.
You can largely do whatever you want to your own name.
It is *not* okay for other people to decide what your name is. When I’m meeting people for the first time, a certain type of person will always immediately shorten my name to a nickname I dislike and never ever use, and I always correct them right away because I’m not here for that shit.
Generally, Americans respect the rights of the individual (current events not withstanding), and that includes the right of the individual to determine their identity. If someone is named “Robert” but introduces themself as “Bob”, then you call them Bob. It’s not really a big deal. Ditto if they introduce themself as “Buck” or something along those lines.
If you insist on calling someone by a name they do not like (like calling Robert “Bob” when they prefer “Rob”), that can be seen as disrespectful.
First, I have a question about the Manu situation. This may be because I’m from the US, but from what I remember about that situation, Macron also received flack for scolding the boy, is that not correct?
There are a couple of reasons. A lot of times it’s done to make Presidents appeal to working class Americans. The other reason is because of family. President Biden’s dad’s name is Joeseph, so a lot of times it’s used to differentiate between the two when growing up. Donald Trump and Don Jr did the same thing. On official documents it says Joseph Robinette Biden but he signs Joe Biden. But in news articles, he’s frequently addressed as President Joe Biden. It depends when you take on the nickname.
We’ll also do the initial thing, such as W (George W Bush), JFK (John F Kennedy), and FDR (Franklin Delano Roosevelt). I remember that Bush’s campaign stickers one race just had “W” on it.
The general rule is you don’t shorten someone’s name for them, unless you’re super familiar with them (like a parent). And giving someone a kid-sounding name sounds very disrespectful. Like if someone called them Billy or Joey to refer to the former presidents. When people criticize Trump they call him Donny for the same reason.
I go by a shortened name and I tried to go by my whole name just to see how it went and people still shortened it. I thought that was weird. People shorten my wife’s name and my daughter’s name and they also hate it. My daughter takes extra offense to it since she thinks it makes her sound like an old lady.