I am pretty sure that the whole stereotypical situation of Americans coming to [*place European country here that they have ancestry in*] and claiming the identity as their own is something that has been a universal experience in Europe, and a maligned one at that. From my experiences, what is irritating in a lot of cases about this situation is that the people in question (at least allegedly) tend not to put effort to learning more about the modern-day country, or learn the language, or the like; just claiming identity without doing anything with it.
However (and this is by no means an exhaustive list), what if this person that is coming to this country speaks your language fluently, or even as a native speaker? What if they inherited citizenship through schemes such as Italy’s, Ireland’s, or Poland’s current rather-permissive citizenship schemes? What if they are incredibly well-versed in the politics, culture, and history of the nation in question? Is it even possible to be able to be considered part of the country at all without being born in the country? **In essence, what is often viewed as the gateway into being considered “part of the group” in your country?**
I am curious mostly on how people in your guys’ countries see culture and identity, and how to be “part of the in-group” at the sheer minimum.
I am looking forward to hear about how the rest of Europe looks at this topic from people on the ground in all these places!
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Besides language which is probably the most important factor I would say the person should have lived at least for a few years in that country and made all the very basic cultural experiences that most people in the country share.
An American (or any nationality) can be have the best theoretical knowledge about German poitics and history but if he or she never lived here apart from visiting for a few weeks I find it hard to see that person as a German. So besides theoretical knowledge you also need practical experience.
In Spain🇪🇸 you’ll need to form a strong opinion on the controversial topics of tortilla de patatas (con O sin cebolla), if cruzcampo is beer or not, the best croquetas, and choose a football team. Then we can start talking about integration/identity
What I mean is that, apart from having the nationality and language, you need to live here or to have lived here for enough time to get the cultural references and inner jokes of your age group. I mean, I know nothing about fortnite and don’t have tiktok, so my chances with the young crowd are 0. But people my age? We share common experiences, referents, and can relate much more than a person raised in the USA would, unless they spent their whole holidays in Spain growing up… And even then.
Well we have to seperate “part of the group” and identity. You’re part of the group imo when the center of your life is in Germany. That includes many foreigners.
But identity is a different thing. most Immigrants including second generation and later don’t even claim to have german identity.
German identity to me is looking at Germany’s history and considering this “your history”. In the USA everyone has a common history of immigration. That’s why it’s easier for them to identify under the same flag.
Now a Turkish german isn’t gonna look at the Third Reich and think “Oh man **we** were so bad”. But this also isn’t necessary to be a fully integrated member of german society.
You’re not going to be considered Irish by other Irish people unless you have an Irish accent and grew up here. You could be 100 per cent Irish in terms of dna but if you didn’t grow up here and you have an American accent, you will just be considered another American.
Language. If you’re fluent in the language and have a similar enough set of values (easy for most people, as we’re rather passive in stuff), you’re in.
If you don’t speak the language, your only hope is to have at least on grandparent from here (who you also know/knew well), so either your family has been here for 3 generations or part of your family is Estonian.
The Basque Country is not an independent state and is split between two states. Therefore, to be Basque cannot mean to have Basque citizenship, because there is no such thing.
I think that’s the ‘lowest bar’ for many other countries that do have/are states. For example if you have the Spanish or French citizenship, there’s many people who will say the lowest bar to clear is to have the citizenship. Of course, you can add more on, but that specific citzenship status tends to be the first and lowest bar.
The confusing thing about Basque identity is that the term for a purely civic or judicial definition of Basque identity, i.e. someone living in one of the administrative territories split between the two states of France and Spain is a neologism in the Basque language. The word is euskotar or euskal herritar that was invented in the 19th century when it became possible and even likely to be born and live in the Basque Country without speaking Basque.
This term sits somewhat uncomfortably with the traditional term for Basque identity, which is entirely articulated around the language. The term is euskaldun, someone who ‘has’ the Basque language.
Today, you can be Basque without speaking Basque. And you can speak Basque without being Basque.
By speaking Basque, you automatically join the ‘Basque-speaking’ group, without ever having visited the Basque Country. That doesn’t make you a better person, more accepted in the Basque community or a better Basque than someone who was born or immigrated to the Basque Country but who doesn’t speak Basque. In fact there’s tons of non-Basque speaking Basques (born or adopted into the Basque Country) who I prefer to spend my time around than with Basque speaking Basques (or Basque speaking non-Basques).
So personal likes or dislikes have nothing to do with it. It’s just a fact that you can be ‘Basque’ in the one sense (a Basque speaker) whilst not being ‘Basque’ (living in the Basque Country’).
If you want to clear the lowest bar to be a Basque in the civic/juridical sense, you’ll get the similar subjective responses you’ll get from any Europeans who are fortunate to have their own state. So, many Germans will consider you German, aside from having the German citizenship (which is inapplicable to the Basque situation because there is no ‘Basque citizenship’) if you have lived in Germany for some arbitrary amount of time and you consider yourself German or understand some arbitrarily chosen German cultural references. Well, many Basques will consider you Basque if you have lived in the Basque Country for some arbitrary time, and you consider yourself Basque, or understand some arbitrarily chosen Basque cultural references.
There’s a slight hick in the comparison, because some Basques also accept that people born in the Basque diaspora all over the world are also Basques, even if they’ve never set foot in the Basque Country, which is definitely not the case for most Germans, because they won’t consider you German if you were born in Australia, and it was only your great grandparents who were Germans. Well, some European Basques do think that the people born in Nevada, USA or Buenos Aires, Argentina from Basque grandparents are also Basques in some way. And some people born in Nevada and Buenos Aires do identify themselves as Basques, even if their family has been living there for three generations.
However, if you want to clear the lowest bar to be a Basque in the other, strictly linguistic sense, there’s only ONE answer: you have to speak Basque. If you speak Basque, you’re Basque, whether you were born and raised (and still live) in China or were born and raised and still live in the Basque Country.
You don’t have to be born in the Netherlands to be a Dutch citizen. Our previous equivalent of speaker of the house was born in Morocco, for example. You can also be born in the Netherlands and not be a Dutch citizen. It’s apparently not easy to gain Dutch citizenship if you are over the age of 18, we’re quite strict on double nationalities for example.
One important thing is that you have to be able to speak Dutch, and just get cultural references. You have to be able to explain why Urk is a shithole, for example.
If you don’t speak Finnish, Swedish or any recognized minority languages, are not a citizen of Finland, do not know Finnish history or live like a Finn would (alcoholism doesn’t count) you are not a Finn. Finnish heritage does not make you Finnish.
Above all I think language and conformity makes up the most important parts. By language I mean complete fluency in a real dialect, not the abomination they teach immigrants. For those out of the loop, instead of a standard spoken language we have two written ones and thousands of spoken dialects. Speaking either of the written ones is a dead giveaway that you’re not Norwegian.
As for culture, the most important aspect is to follow the gist of the Law of Jante, which in essence is to never think you’re special. There’s also overarching cultural activites we do as a nation, like hiking, skiing or drinking at the cabin. If you add either of those to your fluent dialect and code of conduct you’re basically a Norwegian in the eyes of Norwegians (imo).
What does it take to claim to be Bulgarian:
* at least one of your parents must be Bulgarian
* you need to be able to speak the language
* you must know the culture and values
* you must have some connection to the land
I really think in Flanders it’s so much about language because of our history.
And I’m not talking about talking dutch but talk flemish with an accent and everything. Speaking standard dutch will make you stand out like a sore thumb. In some languages you can learn the book language and be ok, not the case in dutch. A single sentence will likely expose you as somebody using it as a second language and as a foreigner.
I open my mouth anywhere in Belgium and people with some knowledge about it will be able to say in what city I was raised or went to school. And they’ll be correct basically every time.
I think it’s one of the reasons we have some bad integration with people. People might try and feel they can never be considered “Belgian” because of their lack of “flemish accent” so we kind of create that “other” group.