Older men, do you think dating (eg. including expectations, etc) has become harder for younger men today? Why or why not?

45 comments

  4. Still the same game just different tools being used like dating apps. Guys dating apps are made to separate you from your money. They work for 1% of men that use them. The odds are NOT in your favor.

  5. When I was young i had no idea what I was doing. The resources available to young people today are enormous, just think of YouTube, Reddit and places like that. Okay, a lot of it is total shit, but some of it is worthwhile, and compare that to the total ignorance that my friends and I suffered from in the 70s and 80s. When I was younger we had no idea how to talk to women, and no idea how to please them sexually. A young man today certainly has some advantages. Standards are higher, but is that a bad thing?

  6. No. People had expectations 20 years ago, too. In fact, since you can meet lots of people on the web, it’s probably easier than ever.

    I think it’s also become easier to whine about failure, and commiserate with a bunch of other whiners on the internet. So a lot of people get the impression that it’s more difficult, since whining has increased, and nobody complains when things go right, so you’re only getting a portion of the whole of information, you know?

  7. In my opinion, the ways people date these days have changed a lot, the major change being that dating has sort of been replaced by casual relationships, until like the age of 30; a lot of people seem to want to have a lot of casual entertainment, couple that with the fact that there really does not seem to be any sort of pressure from the society upon an individual to settle or marry at a certain age, now because of that people feel okay in looking for casual hookups or flings, but the thing is those are very very easily attainable for most women but not so much for men, so you are left with men feeling lonely for not being able get a girlfriend and they don’t have the option of distracting or satisfying themselves with casual stuff; unlike women, they don’t complain about it because they have plenty of options plus the freedom of distracting or satisfying themselves with casual stuff, that is what my observation have been so far.

  8. I can say honestly that I wouldn’t want to try dating today.

    It was difficult enough working up the gumption to ask someone out in real life and facing rejection. The casual malice of being ghosted online or what have you is just toxic.

    The online component itself adds a whole other layer of misery. People put so much of themselves online, and it offers you a wealth of information about someone, but despite appearances to the contrary, you’re not getting the whole picture (but you’re conditioned to *think* that you are). The ability to discover a person and their quirks naturally seems to have diminished.

    When you’re in the real world, your window is narrower. You meet potential partners at school, at work, or at recreation. Your involvement with them is managed by time and proximity. Your investment of time and energy is rewarded by information and possibly reciprocation. A relationship follows. Online may seem to take the “hassle” out of it, but part of that natural investment of time provides opportunity to manage expectations and decide if you like a person beyond something very superficial that a dating profile throws in your face.

    This also comes into play on the area of expectations. Because you have the sea of the internet dating pool at your disposal, you start to think “perfect” is an option right out of the gate. No one is perfect, and not a soul on earth will ever meet every expectation you have. Going back to what I said above, part of a relationship is managing expectations, and weighing the things you like about a person against the things you don’t. Having it all up front doesn’t make it easier, it actually limits you to what you think you want, not what’s available.

    Also, I feel like the current dating era views sex as a transaction, rather than a commitment. It’s something to do to pass the time, or to fill a need, rather than being something special shared between two people who have learned a lot about each other and are committed to each other enough to explore sex in a deep and meaningful way. Now, get in, get it over with, and move on. Oh, you say they’re not good in bed? Well, did you even give them a chance? People like different things, and part of the fun of good sex is exploration.

    That’s a lot of say, but tl;dr – I could be wrong, but from the outside looking in? Hard pass on “dating” in this era.

  9. Disclaimer: I am a younger man. I guess. I’m pushing 30, but I got married within the last 5 years. But I say yes, it is harder.

    During my last semester of college I marched up to the woman who would later be my wife, asked if she wanted to go on a date with me, and got her number. She new nothing about me except my name (we’d met the week prior) We dated and got married. Every time I tell that story people are shocked. I think that’s basically how most couples used to get together, but it’s rare now.

    In America, there are few places where you can just hang out for a long time without being expected to pay for something or do something. There is no “town square” or even a town pub most of the time. There’s WalMart and a bunch of strip malls. And it is taboo to approach a woman in places like that. It’s somewhat taboo to approach a woman at all.

    So we go to online dating apps. If you’re not tall and good-looking, dating apps are hard because it’s difficult to present other assets (money, personality, etc) in a tinder bio, and women have lots of options because men are less picky. (It’s not an indictment of either gender. It’s an evolutionary thing. It makes sense that women are pickier)

    With all that said, it’s not impossible and I’m living proof.

  10. A young male member of my family slept with a girl recently. She had buyers remorse in the morning (we’ve all worn beer goggle glasses) and reported him to the police for rape. He lost his job and had his phone taken.

    Nothing ever went further with the police and he successfully sued his company for unfair dismissal.

    Sleeping with a girl these days not only risks a std, or unwanted pregnancy but also a charge of rape.

  11. Yes. I think home working is really hurting their chances of meeting other young people in a normal setting, online dating can be toxic and very fruitless and as others have said, there are often unrealistic expectations from young women. They also risk being accused of inappropriate behaviour just for asking someone out who isn’t interested (I’m not talking repeated attempts or stalking here, just asking out a cute person they met.)

    Most of my peers met their SO through work or friends and that seems so much harder for them to do.

    I’m the father of two tall, well educated, good looking, socially well adjusted young men with jobs and degrees in their early 20s. They both dated both short and long term in university but opportunity has thinned significantly now they are working and home working is a strong factor in that thinning imo.

  12. I dunno. When I was like 23 I had a hard time getting a date, but now Im in my 30s, and I have women who are way to young for me (like 22-24) throwing themselves at me. Im wondering if its just always been this way with older guys taking up all the supply.

  13. Yes and no.

    I think If you do it like we did, go out and be sociable, actually meet and talk to women in person. Yes, even places you don’t want to go like bars, clubs or parties and actually approach women, and when you get shot down you approach someone else, Rinse and repeat. It won’t be any more difficult. It’s not like every time we went out the night ended with us with someone.

    But if you insist on this online crap, never go out and/or expect the women to approach you, yeah, it’s much harder.

    This shit isn’t just going to fall in your lap. And yes, the guy is going to have to do most of the work, deal with it.

    You might get rejected 100 times in a row, it sucks, but that’s life. Put your big boy pants on and get back out there

  14. I think dating apps make it significantly harder to find a partner (they are more about casual sex). Women have a lot more choice as they get numerous matches whereas I believe guys get less matches as women are more selective. So yes I believe dating is harder for younger men.

  15. Yes. But only because the pool women can draw from is much bigger, giving them access / connections to men with more resources.

    The target audience is the same, the net is just bigger. Why date a 20yr old male on minimum wage at college, when you can date a 30 yr old with a skilled career, car and high 5 – 6 figures.

    It’s harder to compete when you’re young, but still possible.

  16. Dating was much easier 15 years ago for sure. And I mean mainly online dating(write online for some time and than meet irl), since I have pretty much no experience with other forms.

    I could get a date with at least every tenth girl I met online. Nowadays I am happy if 1/100 will even say hi lol.

  19. Harder in the sense that there are far more options maybe.

    Our parents’ dating pool was pretty much limited to their high school.

  20. Seriously dating, as in trying to find a life partner, is significantly harder via dating apps. Just looking for sex? Easy if you’re attractive, not so easy if you’re not.

  21. I don’t know what qualifies as “older,” but no – I don’t think so. The bars and clubs are still open, social clubs are still a thing, school dances, what the fuck ever. All the same old shit’s still there.

    That being said: I think online dating is a trap… and I imagine younger people are more likely to fall into it than folks were back in my teens / early 20’s. It was *kind of* a thing at that point, but it was still picking up steam so most folks I knew hadn’t used it. If you’re only using dating apps to meet people then you’re not *really* trying… but it seems to me there’s a lot of folks that either don’t realize or wouldn’t agree with that statement and end up getting caught in the loop. To be fair: they’re pretty decent at driving engagement and making you think and feel like you’re putting in a legitimate effort.

    For the guys that are still willing to take the dive in-person and risk a little sting from rejection, though? Nah. Same game as always so far as I can tell.

  22. Early thirties here… Personally I think it is harder for men nowadays because the economy is worse. On top of that, there are too many distractions with all the digital options that we all have. tv, video games, social media, porn etc aren’t inherently bad but they are strong forms of escapism and Americans in general are consuming too much of this stuff instead of leaving the house.

    After high school and university, men are no longer forced to be around women thus it is easy to get into the routine of wake up, work, come home, consume whatever junk tech along with weed & booze, sleep, wake up and repeat the cycle.

    If it werent for the distractions, the boredom would push men out of the house and in search for socializing opportunities. You won’t meet many women if you aren’t leaving the house and engaging them.

  25. I think it’s harder, less for a lot of the reasons people listed, though they are not to be completely discounted. But because the more connected we become the less connected we are. We have lost a lot of our social skills and humanity with the advent of social media. People don’t go out as much and mingle or be social as they used to, a lot of our interaction has moved to the web and our ability to interact has suffered. Yet the same level of social aptitude is still required. People are lying for clout, likes and followers, we see people who have apparently perfected lives and think it’s attainable for ourselves, because “if they can get it so can I.”

    People are less patient, empathetic and understanding. They’re more selfish and demanding. We, as a culture have become so used to getting exactly what we want in two days or less or immediately. That’s great for products and movies but not so much for people. We’ve been told there’s better out there, never settle for less than perfect as that is what you’re owed. Again, great for products, but not people, as we are not perfect so we don’t deserve perfect.

    Men are being told to act more like women, women are being encouraged to act more like men. Masculinity is evil femininity is weakness. Men like feminine women and women like masculine men so attraction is at an all time low. Self control and responsibility is also at an all time low, as is genuine pride and self esteem.

    Everyone is being told to do what makes you happy right now, consequences be damned. That’s not the way life works. That’s not the way life will ever work.

  26. Meh, dunno if it’s any different. When I was young, if you didn’t look like johnny depp you were just ew.

  27. I think it’s harder than it was 10years ago. Society is getting more isolated and expensive. There’s fewer places to meet people, as online dating apps are 2-1 male to female at best, and generally closer to 3-1. The rules for when and where you can flirt and approach someone in real life are poorly defined. I think this also makes it harder for women though. Everyone is increasing isolated, and dealing with more expensive cost of living.

  29. You youngins’ have it rough today! Social media has complicated things like a mofo, as well as porn. It used to be you would just go to a party or bar and start chatting, or ask out a friend of a friend that you thought was cute…….. now it is like shopping on amazon on dating sites. Pick one you like and do some research, checking their social media accounts to decide if you want to buy… then get ghosted and start over…..

  30. Depends what you want.

    Hooking up is probably way easier than it was 20 years ago.

    Finding an actual committed relationship with a quality partner is much harder.

    Smart phones/Social media/Dating apps/cultural changes are responsible for both changes.

  31. Reddit and probably other social media makes it sound harder.

    I’m not sure that is the case IRL, I see plenty of young men and women having the time of their respective lives around me, in bars and cafes, strolling down parks and promenades, shopping for groceries, etc.

    I think that men and women of Reddit are not representative of the population in general and, by design, gravitate towards echo chambers that reinforce whatever beliefs they held. Be it militant woe is us or the other gender is holding us down.

  32. No I think younger men just whine about it too much. Finding a date is easier than ever, but getting a meaningful relationship has always been hard.

  33. Once had an experience online dating where once we’d exchanged numbers the person on the other end claimed to be the father of an underage girl and was going to report me to the police for sending her nudes and receiving her nudes. (Unless I paid him not to.) It’s a pretty common scam and as I was in the military and in a position where getting blackmailed for literally anything would be infinitely worse than whatever they were trying to pin on me. (We hadn’t actually exchanged any pics.) I reported it and carried on with my life.

    Told one of my older coworkers about the experience and he just shook his haid and said “glad I got married before all this shit started.”

  34. As someone who got married before dating apps were a thing and then got divorced once they were ubiquitous, I was blown away at how much easier the apps made finding someone to date. It takes care of the hardest part of the whole thing, which is figuring out if someone is single and if they’re at least initially attracted to you. It would have completely changed my (awful) dating experiences in college. It made meeting people to date a million times easier after my divorce. In the end I did end up meeting my 2nd wife in person, but in between that I did date several awesome people I never would have otherwise met without the apps introducing us.

    I also think women are willing to put up with less bullshit than they were before which I suppose would make dating harder for many men.

  36. I am a young man and i have given up dating all together it’s just pointless and it’s harder and more is expected of me as a man

  37. I sometimes wonder if USA is the shallow dystopia is presented on reddit or if it is all a giant echo chamber.

    Here in Spain I have not seen any of this things happening ever, technology and modern society has changed things to the best, you can exchange numbers/socials and keep contact with everyone, having options it’s something I will not see anyone complain about lol.

    If someone has the “grass is greener” mentality you ditch them, they will be well known on the town in like two months or so for not being a reliable person, an “only for hook-ups” option for the rest.

    Edit: typo.

  38. Not that much older, but I can say expectations are definitely higher. I don’t think they’re as high as a lot of people around here like to claim (must be 6’4” with a washboard stomach, huge dick, and make 500k a year), but women are definitely less willing to put up with bullshit now than in any previous time period. It’s hard to see that as a bad thing.

  39. I’m only 32 and its become insanely more difficult in my life time. Your no longer in competition with the dudes in your zip code your now in competition with the literal globe of guys.

    My buddies little sister has been flown out various coasts, and once to another country. Shes a 7 at best getting hit up by multi millionaires. No guy her age in our area can compete with that kinda offer.

    Honestly i don’t blame guys for choosing to opt out I’m glad I’m happily married already.

  40. Early 30s, got married a year ago. Getting a first date is much easier. Getting follow on dates are much harder.

  41. It’s been my observation that young adults spend very little time outdoors. This is a generation that grew up with computers and not with climbing trees as we did when I was young. The best way to meet people is to go out and do things. What are your hobbies? Do you like to go hiking, canoeing or kayaking, swimming or bicycling? Join a club or get out there on your own.

    When I walk around the UMass campus I see young men and women staring at their smartphones and not talking to each other. You’re not going to meet anybody that way

  42. I think it has, but only because men are given so many tools to handicap themselves… by other single men. 1 hour of Youtube is all it takes to convince any single man that he’s a “marginalized group”, that “women have it easier”, and that he should ask women about “body counts”. Social media has infected a generation with crappy bro-science.

    Act like an individual, treat others like individuals, and relationships are easy to form.

  43. Yes, and I’m I’m not even 40 yet.

    I would say two big contributors to this additional challenge:

    1) Dating Apps

    2) Increase cost of living and female financial independence (which btw… that 2nd part isn’t a bad thing, it just makes it harder for men)

    I feel like datings apps have completely, or drastically turned “relationships” into more of a material thing (entertainment even or “for the stories”) and less and less people think about relationships in terms of personal and partner growth, rather, they see things listed on paper and it’s like they’re just shopping for a partner instead. Tie that in together with social media and ego delusions and you have a bad recipe for getting into actual long term relationships. Everyone thinks they’re the fucking prize, and no one ACTUALLY believes they need to grow. Basically, it’s the ME ME ME generation trying to get into relationships.

    With regards to the monies, women make more than they’ve ever had before, which means they’ll likely want men who make as much as, if not more than, them…. and in world where less than 5% of men make less than 6 figures…. well, that drastically fucks up their potential dating options. THe COST of dating is high enough that as a man, you almost need to start thinking “is this worth it?”. Not to say this wasn’t the case before, but with things going up now, it’s even MORE of a thought.

  44. Dating as a guy is pretty hard anyway, all those rejections add up, but my brother being alot younger than me we have discussed this and I think there are extra things at play these days

    1. Mixed messages – women say they want aan more in tough with their emotions, who is sensitive, and supportive of the difficulties of women, supports feminism and, not displaying signs of toxic masculinity, however in practice this doesn’t seem to be the case, as in reality it appears that women keep going for tall (even stipulating in tinder profiles ‘must be at least 6 foot), physically strong, emotionally sturdy (and therefore maybe not so in touch with emotions), financially stable men (and therefore usually competitive), and the men who fit previous description usually get friendzoned

    2. Scared to make a move – back in the day the worst thing that could happen if you made the first move on a date, or in a club, or even starting a mild and respectful flirtation with a coworker you find attractive, was rejection. Now you could outright get sued and #metoo’d (obviously this is not wholly true, but it’s a real fear alot of young men have

    3. My brother, just like alot of young men his age from my observation are completely demotivated to find a girlfriend. Not sure why exactly

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