Our work has taken on a number of Ukranians recently and we’ve discovered a culture clash in how we communicate. Direct and on-topic versus Soft and rambling, apparently.
At a family do recently I noticed how much nonsense my extended family speak.
Did you hear john ramsay moved house?
Who’s that?
He’s friends with Sam Parker who lives by the church.
Is that the church that’s a block of flats now? Joanne Murphy lives there, shes a vet?
Is she? I couldn’t be a vet, they get called out at all hours.
Oh do they? I bet that’s why she drives an audi.
I saw an audi last month going so fast around the roundabout.
Which roundabout was that?…
In my opinion, soft and rambling is about right. Am I just more alert to this because it’s been a thing at work?
30 comments
I dont think what your family were talking about was nonsense….seems just normal small talk/conversation…I’m sure the Ukrainians do the same when they meet their families…
1) I don’t find that conversation especially soft and rambling. I find that a different thing from the cutural difference you are talking about.
2) There is NO doubt that there are different ways of expressing things whether in work or social contexts that are more or less direct or oblqiue.
I think it is the case that British habits of expression are often more elliptical or oblique.
Could it also just be that for the people from Ukraine, English is probably their second language and it’s easier to say exactly what you want to say rather than trying to translate in your head all the small talk.
Maybe don’t ask in r/AskUK
That seems very rambling to me, but I’m not a Brit
British communication is stereotypically indirect, so there’s some truth in what you’re saying.
For example, if you want something from someone you might engage them in conversation and then at the end say ‘oh, and would you mind doing [x]?’, rather than simply saying ‘Do [x] for tomorrow, please.’ Similarly, phrases like ‘quite good’ and ‘not bad’ can throw foreigners as they don’t mean what they seem to at face value — something which is ‘not bad’ is good, but a ‘quite good’ thing is mediocre.
100% on your side OP, it’s a sign of insanity being unable to speak about something and remembering to stay on topic with it. Unfortunately the more people you meet, the more you realise everyone’s kind of broken.
It’s not necessarily a British thing, it’s a boring person thing for those who have limited intelligence or personality and therefore nothing worth talking about.
Btw, did you see what her at number 14 did to her fence? I see she’s got a new fancy man, I wonder if he did it. He’s been parking his big car on the pavement you know…
English is the most complicated and nuanced language in the world, with twice as many words as the next most complicated language, people do a very good job of speaking it as a second language considering how complex it is. Take the sentence “I never said she stole all the money” depending on which word you emphasise, the meaning of the sentence will totally change. This is also why the best comedy, drama, poetry and all media is all in English. So versatile.
I’ve noticed this in the anglophone countries I’ve lived in so I wouldn’t say it’s exclusively British, but it’s not really something my Slavic family do. It definitely took my mum getting used to when she came to the uk 😂
There’s definitely a cultural tendency towards being indirect. A lot of British conversations involve lots of small talk with random meandering topics before you get to the “ask”. It’s considered rude to jump straight to something like “can you do x for me?” Or even just a straight up invite “do you want to go to a restaurant tonight?”.
That’s just normal conversation that’s gone on forever?
My friend’s Ukrainian, but lived here 18 years.
She’s said they speak much more directly and honestly over there than Brits do.
Like the old ‘Does my bum look big in this?’ joke, Ukrainian women will just say yes, and then tell you if they don’t like your haircut as well, they don’t skirt around offending you.
As a South-Eastern European who’s been living in the UK for 8 years now, yes, this is a thing that I noticed right from the start. The communication style in the UK is much softer and more diplomatic, and in some work situations it’s more like beating around the bush and having to read between the lines.
In my country everyone is much more direct and to the point.
My wife does that and i have to pull it back. Like, ‘so what’s John’s house like?’
I’ve worked with a variety of Europeans, and they are all much the same; to the point. English is difficult to learn, so i completely understand that they just make their point lol
Also, yes i agree that *most* English people go around in circles in conversations “you know X? Yeah her mums sisters fella” or making a short story long…. “Well, this happened because last summer …… and thats why i got this orange juice”
Well I am not Ukrainian but I am Polish and I can agree. Maybe not rambling, I wouldn’t say it’s so much about the small talk but … definitely lengthy. I find that Slavic people are just concise when we speak, which may appear as being abrupt sadly. I battled with this most of my stay in the UK and had been put on track by a British family I lived with.
So in contrast to the above, I found how much bubble wrapping I need to do to not appear abrupt – simply because people thought I am a cold b****.
For example, if I wanted to ask colleague at work for something, if I was being Polish, I would just simply ask if they can do so and so and expect answer yes or no. If I ask being British, I make sure they know I hope they’re alright, I wonder if they don’t mind doing me a favour and I reassure it’s completely fine if they can’t do it.
On numerous occasions being Polish caused arguments between me and my British boyfriend and he noticed this phenomenon when he went to Poland with me a couple of times and met my friends and family. Saves time and breath I guess.
I learned from my father the word for that type of conversation – drivel!
1. Yes, it’s a difference in culture. They tend not to understand sarcasm and the type of ‘banter’ humour we have in Britain would be construed as a genuine insult from the perspective of someone from Eastern Europe and even the USA.
2. They have English as their third language (native Ukrainian and Russian being the second).
3. Don’t forget they are engaged in a war, so the idea of talking obliquely or in a rambling fashion is not something they, as a people, have been taught to do or have time for.
So yes, you are encountering different people from different lands with different cultural/societal norms. I must say, I find it a bit odd how you wouldn’t already know this or at least expect it?
Read the book “The Culture Map” by Erin Meyer.
She talks about communicating with different cultures and what to be aware of. It’s more work related but it’s super interesting. The book is better than the audio book as she puts interesting graphs in there that make it easier to understand.
As someone who lives in the UK and with English as my 2nd language, I can assure you that even if your English is very good, being able to have and follow that kind of small talk it’s just a whole different level. That’s native-speaker level for me, I hope to achieve it at some point.
I went on a group house viewing with a lady from Eastern Europe and she was very direct when the EA tried to smooth talk her into changing her next viewy because he’d double booked himself. It was funny, he’s all “I’m so sorry, can you make it at 5pm” “No.”
I found it the same when I spent some time in Germany on training courses, they would sit and watch in amazement as we rambled on about random topics and look bemused as we found literally everything funny – they caught us out how direct they were.
One example was when the receptionist came into the training course and announced “you have put recycling with non recycling – you will sort this out NOW”, everything stopped as we went into the rest area and sorted out the bottles, cans, wrappers etc into the correct receptacles – our reward was “You will not do this again?”.
Rest assured we did not do it again.
Absolutely lovely people, beautiful country – I hope to go back one day.
I have a friend who’ll always tell stories about people I’ve never heard of. “That Jane Smith was in town the other day, I used to think she was so stuck up”. I’ll say I don’t know who that is, and he’ll carry on “Ryan from the post office is her son”. I don’t know who Ryan is either. Practically all his conversations involve people I’ve never met and their extended family 😆
I’d say definitely british but typical of older(?), possibly lives in a suburb area lady rather than general population
I’m not British but small talk about other people seems to be very much tied up in a lot of classism and gossip. For some people it’s all they know. My ex in laws were like that. They couldn’t hold a conversation if it wasn’t gossiping about other people.
I generally think it’s a horrible quality.
My mum is very much why say it in 5 words when you can take 1000. I’m the complete opposite so she always thinks I’m being short when I reply to her long rambling messages
I actively block/delete/ignore the braindead wittering idiots in my life. My family used to steal oxygen like this at every available opportunity. Completely no contact now and my life is much more relaxed and pleasant 🙂
You should hear Irish rambling. I’m terrible for it. I can go on for hours round and round speaking shite, without getting to the original point
Well, encourage them to discuss the drainage of the lower field with Ted.
I thunk its a older woman thing.
My mum does it. Start a story, gets distracted and goes off so many tangents, none of us, including her remember what the original story was