My wife (33f) wants to take our daughter on a girls trip with my mother in law, aunt, and cousin. I, the father (33m), am not invited. Our daughter will be 6 months old at the time. I think it’s ridiculous for a family to split itself up into sub groups for vacations and I’m very hurt that I’m not invited. Am I the asshole?
More background:
I should mention that I don’t think it’s BAD for a family to do this, but it’s just not right for me. My family never did things like this and it makes me uncomfortable. I feel like this is an artifact of families where the parents don’t get along (my mother in law and father in law hate each other and live separately but are still technically married) or families with strict gender roles where the girls do one set of things and the boys do another (this is a common feature when hanging out with my wife’s family). I never had that growing up and, more importantly, I don’t want it going forward. To me it’s like an open relationship: I’m sure it works for some people, I don’t really get it but I don’t have to understand it and I wouldn’t judge how others want to live their lives… however, I have no interest in being a part of such an arrangement and it’s a deal breaker for me.
I also feel deceived because of this. She always complained about the gender role stuff in her family and I always thought we’d be a close team doing most things together as a tight knit family unit. Increasingly she wants more and more space, which is not unreasonable on its face, but I feel we’ve already drifted apart and I feel increasingly alone and abandoned. I don’t feel like she cares.
Unfortunately, I don’t know if the solution is for me to tag along. I do not get along with my mother in law because she is emotionally abusive and manipulative. It has frankly evolved to resentment and hate on my part, which I am trying to tamp down on but it’s hard. She has my wife in an enmeshed relationship and has said and done plenty of mean and hurtful things. They are of course interleaved with loving things, but I don’t forget the hurtfullness and the nice things I see as manipulative and guilt ploys (I did all this for you etc.). My wife, being enmeshed, instantly forgets the bad and remembers the good. I remember the bad and the lack of any apologies, and so the good feels worthless and imposing (eg, what am I going to do with all these shitty gifts) to me. My wife identified (with one of the many therapists she has seen about her mother) the enmeshment and believes her mom is emotionally manipulative narcissist, but having grown up in that environment and loving her mom, she has a hard time standing up for herself and maintaining boundaries. She typically just folds and does what her mom wants but thinks it’s her idea.
Is this all weird to anyone else? What do I do? I’m not saying we shouldn’t have independent interests or even trips, but this feels arbitrary and exclusionary.
tl;dr my wife wants to go on a trip with our daughter where I am not invited and I feel excluded and betrayed
Edit: thanks everyone for your input. I guess for the most part I’m just overreacting. It still feels like an alien concept to me but whatever
38 comments
Girls trips can be fun because they “let their hair down” and relax. You have a lot of things going on in your head right now that I don’t think have a lot to do with this particular trip.
In the meantime, though, why not plan a nice family vacation for the near future after they get back? They have some fun, you get your family trip, and everyone stays happy
Having a girls only trip is not necessarily a gender-role/ traditional thing. I’m a feminist who doesn’t adhere to that stuff, and sometimes I appreciate bonding with other women or female family members. You’re projecting your own issues onto this and come off as extremely needy- let them have their trip and get over it. The real issue here is your wife’s relationship with her mom which sounds extremely toxic.
Alright, first, I think it’s important to note that families can and do have “girl trips” without it being a gender role thing. I can understand why you would be uncomfortable with it and that’s your right, but I wouldn’t jump to the conclusion that your wife is betraying her feminist views or anything like that for entertaining the idea of a girl’s trip.
Second, you don’t mention how long the trip is supposed to be. Is it a day? A weekend? A week? This does kinda matter on the scale of what I feel should be considered reasonable. A day or even a short weekend out, I wouldn’t make a big deal out of. A full on vacation of 4+ days? Yeah that’s pushing it.
Lastly, have you actually brought this up with your wife? How does she feel about your feelings about it? How does she respond to them?
>To me it’s like an open relationship
Okay, no, it’s really not. You’re entitled to your feelings about all this but comparing your wife going on a girl’s trip to having an open relationship is definitely a reach and makes me think you’re being a bit possessive of her. I get that you don’t like MIL and you seem to have very valid reasons to, and I get that you’re pissed that your wife still wants to go on trips with her. That’s worthy of a conversation, but I wouldn’t approach it as a betrayal of your romantic relationship tbh.
>I do not get along with my mother in law because she is emotionally abusive and manipulative.
/r/raisedbynarcissists might also be a good resource for you. It’s not weird on it’s face to have a ‘girl’s trip’, but in your case it’s violating a boundary so it’s not okay.
I can only validate you – you are not a bad person if you keep your boundaries firm. You are not a bad person if you give an ultimatum to your wife regarding your boundaries.
how long is the trip? If I missed it in the OP my bad
You say she’s been wanting more and more space. That’s a red flag on your behavior. You need to learn to give her the space she’s craving or this relationship will be over before you know it.
Her mother is needy and demanding. You’re needy and demanding. Take a long look in the mirror before trying to impose your will onto your wife. The more you tighten your grip, the faster the sand runs through your hands.
>I feel like this is an artifact of families where the parents don’t get along (my mother in law and father in law hate each other and live separately but are still technically married) or families with strict gender roles where the girls do one set of things and the boys do another (this is a common feature when hanging out with my wife’s family).
Gently, I think you’re attributing motives/motivations here that may not apply.
I want you to try looking at this from another lens, a little. You’re taking this personally because you’re seeing it as “not being wanted.” For that to be true, we have to assume that the reasons for this trip centre around *you*, and that is very unlikely to be the case. It may simply be that she wants to spend more quality time with your mom, and the aunt and cousin in question, to help *them* form a bond of their own.
We are different people with our spouses, and having space from one another isn’t just a good idea, it’s absolutely essential to a healthy relationship.
>I also feel deceived because of this. She always complained about the gender role stuff in her family and I always thought we’d be a close team doing most things together as a tight knit family unit.
I can understand your feelings, but I’m not sure “deceived” is the right word. Complain as she might about how her family *insists* on doing things, she may also see it in a way as a comfort zone that might allow her to strengthen her connection with your mom, among others. Both things can be true.
>Increasingly she wants more and more space, which is not unreasonable on its face, but I feel we’ve already drifted apart and I feel increasingly alone and abandoned. I don’t feel like she cares.
I’m sorry you’re feeling that way. Is this something you’ve talked to her about? What are some examples of the shift in tone you’ve been noticing in your relationship?
It’s also possible that there are elements of something like PPD or other post-partum emotional challenges in here, and on top of that, it’s possible that she, herself, is feeling a little alone. Would she have a reason to feel that way? What’s the division of labour since your child came into the picture? What does your involvement look like with your daughter day-to-day?
>I do not get along with my mother in law because she is emotionally abusive and manipulative.
Oh dear. This is a bit of an unfortunate twist.
>She has my wife in an enmeshed relationship and has said and done plenty of mean and hurtful things.
Does your wife understand the extent to which your mother’s behaviour has been hurtful to you? I admit this does shift the tone of the outing, and I’m concerned that your wife is, well…not on your team, right now.
>My wife identified (with one of the many therapists she has seen about her mother) the enmeshment and believes her mom is emotionally manipulative narcissist, but having grown up in that environment and loving her mom, she has a hard time standing up for herself and maintaining boundaries.
This is going to be essential for helping to maintain *your* boundaries. The two of you should be a team, and if your mother is violating or invalidating your boundaries, your wife’s job is to take your lead and help you reinforce those boundaries together.
With the context, I can see why you’re concerned and I share it. Until your mom has shown that she can respect your boundaries (and until *your wife* has shown the same), I don’t think the two of them should be spending time together at all, let alone without you, and *let alone* with your infant daughter in tow.
You’re making a mountain out of a molehill.
Edited for spelling.
>however, I have no interest in being a part of such an arrangement **and it’s a deal breaker for me.**
Don’t use this language unless you’re about that life. There is so much dramatization and escalation in your post; you need to relax and breathe.
If you’re going to say “dealbreaker” to your wife, then you had better file for divorce while she’s gone, otherwise you’re just manipulative. Otherwise, calm the hell down, think, and say what you actually feel and only threaten what you’ll ACTUALLY deliver.
(And if that consequence is, *”If you go, I’m going to pout and be whiny about it”* then for the love of god, stop all of this.)
Onto the topic of the girl’s trip…
Take away all the “FEMINISM! GENDER ROLES!” BS and look at it and figure out what hurts you about it.
– Do you believe this is Step One in your toxic MIL trying to push you out of your own family’s life?
– Do you think your wife is trying to get away from you because you’re too much to deal with emotionally?
– You dread the thought of not being around your 6mo daughter for a week?
– Do you want to go on this little trip with your MIL and aunt and cousin?
Why does this ACTUALLY bother you?
You have serious issues in your marriage that you are irrationally, and unfairly, pinning on this trip because, in the end, you just plain don’t like it.
And that’s fine. You’re allowed to not like it. But that doesn’t make it wrong, or arbitrary and exclusionary. You’re just not happy with it.
Your wife’s issues with boundaries with her mother are not your issues to solve. They are hers, and doesn’t make this trip a wrong thing for her to want for herself.
Your daughter will grow up learning that other people have different ideas about gender and gender roles — you will not be able to hide this fact from her. How she is treated in her own home will be the dominant factor, and you need to come to an agreement with your wife on how your own family functions. You will not have perfect control over inlaws, or friends, or even educators and strangers…
Honestly, what you do seem to be saying here is that you cannot have independent interests or trips. *when you’re not feeling secure in happy in the relationship*. And that is an arbitrary line that is going to make your other issues bigger, not smaller, if you try to enforce it.
If this is a real boundary for you, then say so. However, I’d strongly suggest you respect it, and then get some marriage counseling to address the actual core issues and disagreements.
Don’t rob your wife of something she values with her family, because you and she have other work to do in your relationship. It will feel like a punishment. And on some level, I think actually is.
I think its extremely valid to say you’re not comfortable with her taking a 6 month old on vacation. But there will ne several women there to attend to it regularly. But also who wants a baby on a vacation? Sounds awful.
I think you’re upset about more than just the trip, obviously. You don’t like your MIL. She sucks I get it. You feel your wife’s values are wishy washy, but equal doesn’t mean you need like an even number of guy or girl friends or you can’t cherish time spent alone with a specific group of people.
Friends/family trips aren’t romantic trips and it can really ruin the vibe for one partner to come along. Like couples prioritize each other over others, it creates a shitty power imbalances half the time where you have partners advocating for their partners and trying to sway the group to do what Craig wants.
I think its fair to say you’re not comfortable and you’re hurt, especially when your baby is so young. It’s fair to say you want the baby’s first vacation to be with you two as a family
Also you seem to see your wife as an easily manipulated ninny. The fact she still loves her mother doesn’t make her ignorant or dumb or a victim at this age.
Hey, it doesn’t matther if your MIL is narcissist and your wife knows it, is hard to just cut reationship with your close family, everyone still wants a mother in their life, people like that have good moments that are hard to forget. You’re not supporting your wife just saying “HOW COULD YOU GO OUT WITH YOUR ABUSIVE MOTHER, GOODBYE”. She has inconditional love, you just have to set boundaries with her mother.
And with the gender role stuff, imagine growing up in that type of life, most of the people feel comfortable with this and some not, and it’s okay, both are valid. You can’t control other’s people feels. Support your wife too with her limits and her family, it takes work, not just 1 month or 3 years.
It depends on the family/friend group, but having kiki with just girls, MOST OF THE TIMES, is different than just boys or mixed opinions.
Whatever you think of your MIL, it’s a GIRL’S TRIP, not a family trip. A family trip would include you. This is not a feminist issue. Your wife isn’t going to leave the baby for a week, so the baby comes too. The energy is different when it’s all women. Do not insert yourself in this trip. It will not go well. Take the week to start investigating your issues around control and insecurity. Get some therapy to help you figure this out.
Honestly, it sounds like a shit trip you don’t wanna go on anyway, and you should just take advantage of the period of time off to go relax do your own thing. A bit of distance and me-time is absolutely valuable – *you do not have to do every single thing your wife does*. Her doing a thing like this without you is not a rejection of you.
You are doing the absolute most. You do realize that women do things without men, right? WOMEN go places MEN are not invited or or desired at, right? Men go on male bonding trips, hang out with ‘the fellas’ play or watch sports, etc without women, right?
Not sure what this signifies to you but you really need to examine this more deeply and get a handle on why you feel so hurt about being excluded from an ALL FEMALE event? ALL FEMALE – you are not a female. You would be out of place there and totally mess up the experience for the women. The other husbands would be wondering what the heck is wrong with you for wanting to be around their woman and daughters like that as well.
All in all it’s good you wrote so people can explain the problem with your way of thinking, and how you need to adjust yourself to the real world before you cause serious problems in your marriage.
Just for a different perspective, I come from a very loving family, my parents have been together for almost 40 years happily, we love family vacations, almost all of us hang out at least once a week, we have family group chats and a family snapchat and everything. We also have sub groups- my husband is in a group chat with my dad and brother in laws, I’m in one with just my sisters and one with my sisters and my mom, there’s one with just the “original” mom, dad, myself and sisters, and a sibling one with all the sisters and BILs. We rarely have issues with each other, we haven’t had a real argument since high school, just a good supportive family. We also aren’t really into the traditional gender role thing.
All that to say that, once a year or so, my mom, my sisters and I go on a weekend away together. It’s awesome. Last time we brought my daughter, once we left the kids home, and the next one will probably be with all 3 kids-all girls, ranging from less than a year old to almost 4. It’s nice to have that time away to chill and bond with each other. It’s nice to do more “traditionally” girlie things that we don’t really do much of- paint our toenails, do face masks, binge Downton Abbey. Hike at a leisurely pace, eat brunch, whatever. If my husband decided to go somewhere with his brother, or his family, I’d be happy for him. Obviously we both make sure that our little family comes first- we have vacations together and go on date nights and family nights out. You can’t only have one support person though.
I’d address whatever your core issue is here, OP- why do you feel like you and your wife are growing apart a little bit? Have you asked her if she feels like she’s getting enough support from you? You have a 6 month old daughter- is your wife feeling any post partum depression or anxiety? Is she feeling like you do enough? Is she feeling okay about her postpartum body? I know at about 5 months is when it got *rough* with my first kid. I was thinking things would be feeling more normal by then and they were very decidedly not. I wasn’t getting enough sleep, the house wasn’t as clean as I wanted it, and my husband was working full time while I was only part time. It made sense, childcare is mad expensive, but I was still lonely for adult company. I was struggling with my identity and what society was expecting of me. My husband was (and is) great, but my mom understood in a way he never could- and when we did our first girls trip with my baby, I had 2 sisters and my mom who were fresh and wanting to help me. They changed her, fed her, stopped her from rolling to the stairs, all that. It was lovely and I came back honestly happier. I get that your wife’s family isn’t the same as mine and you have concerns- but do you actually think a vacation is going to cause emotional harm to your wife and baby? If not, it sounds like a ‘you’ problem that you can address. Are you jealous? Worried about what it’ll do to your relationship to have her away? Figure that out and see what you and your wife can do to fix that- because I almost guarantee it’s something you can do at home, together.
Congratulations, you’re using the same manipulative language as your MIL, just from the opposite end of perspective.
And the way you want to deny your daughter bonding with women or spending time with them because you think it’s “gendered” is… That’s a big yikes, my man. I have a son and I have a daughter. There are some things my son likes to do that my daughter hates, and vice-versa. They each develop their own preferences as they age, and trying to curtail that preference because you think her time with women is bad has a lot of “I don’t want women to meet together because then they’ll think” vibes.
EDIT: The fact that your wife wants more space from you, to the point of being **aware** that she is choosing to spend time with her mother while working out enmeshment issues, is a **giant** red flag on your part. Like… Perhaps you could use that week to think about why you’re clinging so hard, and what specific behaviors you have that have made her want more space from you.
You both need to read the book Toxic In Laws, like, yesterday. There’s a chapter on enmeshment specifically but the entire thing is super helpful (I’d be willing to bet your in laws are toxic in a few ways) and actually helped me in recognizing shit with my own family.
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents is also great.
Both can really help you reframe your relationships with your families of origin and your family (you, your wife, your baby, and any future babies).
Dude this is a perfect dream come true! Let them go off and you get a staycation at home! Mozel tov
There are so many layers here. My only advice is that you seek individual and couples therapy.
There is nothing wrong with family (or friends) girls or guys trips. People do it literally all the time. Ladies trip to the wine country. Guys skiing weekend. It is unhealthy for married couples to be attached at the hip at all times, and single gender group dynamic is totally different from mixed company. It’s a safe space – whether you are a man of a woman – to relax and talk about issues you wouldn’t bring up in mixed company. For the love of god you sound suffocating. You do not belong on this trip – don’t even try to go. You can manage a week away from your wife and daughter, you are not that emotionally fragile (hopefully). And understand that your MIL is your wife’s MOTHER. Mother-daughter bond is not something you seem to understand, and your attempts to break or weaken it will bring you nothing but grief. You need to chill and use this time alone for some much needed self reflection.
Reading over all the comments and your own. Clearly you don’t have a good relationship between the mother-n-law. But honestly don’t go ham sandwich over a girls trip between her parent and the wife. Its not uncommon and many families do this and there will be time to do trips together and with her family included. This is not a deal breaker, take this opportunity to go do what you would like. I would be going out with friends or something like golf or whatever your into. What happened between the mother-n-law and father-n-law that is their weird relationship, let them deal with that. Chill
>My wife (33f) wants to take our daughter on a girls trip with my mother in law, aunt, and cousin. I, the father (33m), am not invited.
A trip w other women is different bc you get to talk about things that normally you wouldn’t discuss in front of a male relative. Your wife deserves time to bond w her female relatives about maternity (which you can’t and won’t able to understand) and what not. I doubt you’d feel comfortable about listening to cousin and aunt talk about how their period changed after having a kid, to mention just one thing. I don’t see anything wrong w your wife wanting to go on a week trip w her family. She can’t really leave daughter bc I assume she’s her main care giver so, it’s not like she’s dragging baby to indoctrinate her in the ways of feminism (that’s how your post sounds) but because hey, someone’s gotta take care of the kid.
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>I think it’s ridiculous for a family to split itself up into sub groups for vacations and I’m very hurt that I’m not invited. Am I the asshole?
Your feelings are valid (you feeling hurt because you aren’t invited) but you are taking it way too personal. I doubt they planned this trip as “let’s not invite OP because he sucks”, plenty of families take this type of trips. The fact that you don’t like it doesn’t mean you get to decide if it’s right or wrong. You are the asshole in the way that you are conveying things on this post though.
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>I should mention that I don’t think it’s BAD for a family to do this, but it’s just not right for me. My family never did things like this and it makes me uncomfortable.
This is an opportunity for you to learn how to live w some mild discomfort. Your wife and kid will be back in a week, a week is nothing. Take that time to relax, do your own things, see friends, REST (unless you haven’t done anything to take care of your kid in the last year, anyone would be DELIGHTED to be able to have a week of good night sleep).
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>I feel like this is an artifact of families where the parents don’t get along (my mother in law and father in law hate each other and live separately but are still technically married) or families with strict gender roles where the girls do one set of things and the boys do another (this is a common feature when hanging out with my wife’s family). I never had that growing up and, more importantly, I don’t want it going forward. To me it’s like an open relationship: I’m sure it works for some people, I don’t really get it but I don’t have to understand it and I wouldn’t judge how others want to live their lives…
You are reading way too much into this. As they say, if it’s hysterical it’s historical.
>however, I have no interest in being a part of such an arrangement and it’s a deal breaker for me.
As others have told you, you have to be careful w your words because this type of ultimatums are toxic in any relationship. If your relationship is not estable enough that something like a week away from home is a dealbreaker for you, then you’d be doing both of you a service by getting a divorce. Be mindful of your words, if you don’t mean it, don’t use Bomb words like “dealbreaker” so nonchalantly.
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>I also feel deceived because of this. She always complained about the gender role stuff in her family and I always thought we’d be a close team doing most things together as a tight knit family unit. Increasingly she wants more and more space, which is not unreasonable on its face, but I feel we’ve already drifted apart and I feel increasingly alone and abandoned. I don’t feel like she cares.
As others have told you, this is not a gender role thing, you are using that to make it sound like you are being left out because you are a man and it’s not that.
You can be a tight knit family unit and still there will be space for relatives and other family to have existence and space in your daily lives because guess what, that’s what getting married is also about. Even if you dislike your MIL, if your wife wants to have her in her life, you don’t get to tell your wife to keep or drop that relationship. Your wife is not your possession, she gets to decide who does she keep close and how much. If you disagree w the amount of time she spends w your in laws then you guys can talk and discuss this in a neutral environment such as couples counseling .
It catches my attention that you say your wife wants more and more space. We can’t know why that is, but you come across as controlling, and generally people want to run away from being controlled.
“I feel increasingly alone and abandoned” This is a very strong statement. I hope you can find some individual therapy to explore why a week trip is causing such a strong emotional response in you and why you feel like your wife is “abandoning you”.
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>Unfortunately, I don’t know if the solution is for me to tag along.
I’m sorry but this is not a solution. You weren’t invited, inserting yourself when you clearly weren’t invited is not appropiate and speaks of your need of control. Want control? control yourself. Stay home, find a therapist.
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>I do not get along with my mother in law because she is emotionally abusive and manipulative. It has frankly evolved to resentment and hate on my part, which I am trying to tamp down on but it’s hard.
It’s totally understandable that you don’t like your MIL if she’s been abusive towards your wife, but again, is your wife the one that has to learn to set and enforce boundaries. If you dislike your MIL so much I don’t see how inserting yourself into the trip is going to help at all.
>My wife identified (with one of the many therapists she has seen about her mother) the enmeshment and believes her mom is emotionally manipulative narcissist, but having grown up in that environment and loving her mom, she has a hard time standing up for herself and maintaining boundaries.
This is something your wife has to figure out on her own. You can always convey how worried you are about her mental health whenever she’s around her mother but at the end of the day, it’s your wife’s work to realize how this relationship is affecting her and what does she need to do about it. She’s the one that needs to learn to set and enforce better boundaries. It’s her healing process and like with anything, it takes time and even so, it could never heal in the way you seem to need (your wife cutting contact w her mother). You need to be prepared for that scenario.
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>Is this all weird to anyone else? What do I do? I’m not saying we shouldn’t have independent interests or even trips, but this feels arbitrary and exclusionary.
It’s not arbitrary nor exclusionary. You can take this week to do loooots of self reflection about why you need to control your wife so much. Your wife is trying to run away from someone super controlling and toxic (her mom) to be with someone who seems as equally controlling (yourself). Don’t you see the irony of it?
Work on yourself before you blow your whole marriage.
my girls trips with my grandma, mom, aunts, and cousins are some of my favorite childhood memories. some of my other favorite childhood memories are times spent with my dad on family vacations. one does not negate the other and I’m so glad I had the opportunity to do BOTH.
It’s pretty clear from your comments and responses that you’re mainly worried about your daughter being away from you with your MIL for a week. Regardless of how you feel about it, you can’t keep your daughter away from your MIL otherwise you’re going to get painted as the bad guy. Regarding the enmeshment…dude I get you’re stressed about your kid but she’s still basically an infant she’s probz not even gonna remember this trip. Sounds like you need to talk further with your wife about your feelings about your kids spending time with her family and work something out together bc your daughter inevitably will be spending more time with them in the future. I mean…what happens in the event of an emergency and you need a sitter? But issuing ultimatums like this especially on something as innocent as a girls trip ain’t the way to go.
>I feel increasingly alone and abandoned. I don’t feel like she cares.
I think this is what you should bring up with your wife. What can you both do to ease those feelings?
I personally have been in a relationship where my SO did not like me going on girls nights. He had the same progressive ideals of not separating by gender, and invited himself along or else heavily guilted me, shamed me, maybe even you could consider it punishing me, if I wound up going without inviting him. So I allowed him to accompany where he was not invited until I was no longer invited bc he consistently killed the mood. Not allowing or encouraging your SO to have a life where they can go out without you occasionally is called Isolation.
She should be entitled to have a relationship with her family without your judgment if she pleases. If she is still putting effort into a relationship with them while being able to acknowledge their wrong doings, in a lot of ways that shows maturity or at least her ability to love unconditionally. It is not fair to ask your partner to only focus on the negative traits of people she loves, or ask them to stop loving them just because their actions and opinions dont line up with your morals – despite a living being’s physical safety being at risk. She grew up with them, she loves them inspite of their flaws, and Im sure theres plenty of messed up things your family has done that you ignore when they are in your life too. It is a natural response for some people.
I understand that you feel like your wife’s family is manipulative and has different values from you, but they are still her family, and it is between her and her therapist how she sets those boundaries unless they are consistently attacking you.
If you do not want her having a relationship with her family or anyone who has opinions/behaves differently differently than you, you need to be honest with yourself that you want to isolate her.
Also, it is COMPLETELY normal in our society still to separate by gender for specific activities. Just because that is something your opinion is against, does not make her wrong in any way and does not make you wrong in any way. Gender roles are changing, but theyre not quite there to a point where this is something it is fair for you to pass judgment on. Raise your kids differently if that’s something you want for the future.
Do you not have any male friends?
Uh… its a girls trip to celebrate being a mom.
Frankly you sound pretty controlling. How is your wife going on vacation with her family like an “open relationship”? It sounds like you don’t like her being out of your sight. She just had a baby. She’s figuring out how to be herself again. It makes perfect sense to want a week away with just women.
You dont get along with your mother in law. That’s why it’s a girls trip. I just ended a very long term relationship for this very reason. He didn’t get along with my mother. It was always awkward when we we all had to be together. We started taking girls trips, mother, daughter and granddaughter. He sounded just like you, jealous and possessive. Why would you want to go if you don’t like the company you will be around. You will not have a good time, you will be aggravated with the mother in law and everyone will be uncomfortable.
Get therapy. This isn’t anything to be this insecure about, bud.
This is your wife’s mother and your wife’s family tradition, and you sound like you are trying very VERY hard to make your wife choose between you and the rest of her family. Stop that.
And no, the solution is NOT for you to tag along on a girls’ trip. You identify as male, you would not belong on this trip.
You knew about all of this when you married her and you knew about it when you had a child, so it’s a little late to be calling it a deal breaker now. That ship has sailed and you didn’t get on it.
What is it that’s really bothering you? Focus on that. The trip is not the problem here. It sounds like you are upset that your wife has become distant lately. Focus on that. Ask her to work with you to solve this problem. Why is she distant? How can you grow closer again? Should you plan activities? Can you go in date nights? Are you putting pressure on her to stop spending time with her mother? Is she exhausted and feeling the need for support from the other mothers in her family?
>Unfortunately, I don’t know if the solution is for me to tag along.
“Tagging along” isn’t acceptable. You don’t get to invite yourself on trips. If you try to go, I promise that everyone will resent it. Not everything is about you. Their trip isn’t about excluding you, it’s about including the women in the family.
I know you don’t want to be away from your daughter, but would you really want a week with a 6mo with no respite? On the trip, there are multiple people who can help your wife out. You’d be alone. And if your daughter is breastfed or on breastmilk then being away from your wife for a week isn’t possible.
You give off massively possessive, controlling, and manipulative vibes. It honestly sounds like you’re trying to make sure no one has access to your wife without you there, almost like you’re trying to prevent her from talking about you to someone else.
Please get therapy.
It’s really ok to do girls trips. Or guys trips. Or daddy daughter trips. Just as long as you’re not *only* doing those trips.
You sound exhausting to be married to. I understand not wanting to be away from your daughter for a week, but seeing your responses to these comments you sound horribly unaware, manipulative, and annoying
Both my wife and I travel separately with our children and together. It’s a great way to form further bonds with your family and great for your child to bond with them. Of course we make sure to travel together as well. We also both love getting the occasional break where we can just chill on our own.
I think the problem here is not the actual girls’ trip, but (1) your MIL being abusive and toxic and your wife being enmeshed, and (2) you feeling like your wife is distant.
Taking a girls’ trip is a normal thing, as is taking a boys’ trip. It’s not about gender roles and norms, or about getting away from your spouse – more an excuse to spend quality time with family or friends in a different setting and configuration. It’s just as normal to do father/daughter activities and mother/son activities. I think it’s feeling weird to you because your MIL sucks, and you know she’s going to be mean on the trip just like always – I bet if it was your wife and a nice female friend, you’d feel differently. I don’t have much advice, other than check out Justnomil, and think carefully about whether your daughter ever witnesses the abuse and mistreatment of your wife, or if she could possibly be a target for MIL to abuse. You may need to set boundaries to protect her from being around that if your wife won’t. It’s one thing for your wife to choose to keep going back to that toxic relationship, but quite another for her to bring a baby into it. You are absolutely justified in protecting your kid from MIL’s toxicity.
As far as your wife being distant – y’all had a kid 6 months ago, so that isn’t unusual. She’s probably touched out and desperate for alone time (you probably are, too, but in my experience moms seem to struggle with this more than dads, especially if they breastfeed and/or stay at home with kids). I don’t want to minimize the issue or dismiss your feelings, because it is important that you guys stay close and communicate well – but it may also help to manage your expectations of doing everything together as a family unit, and instead find a way to carve out more alone time for your wife regularly. Maybe you can plan some special father/daughter activities soon, so your wife can get some alone time, while you can make some fun memories with your little girl? Maybe you could even take her to visit your family or friends for a weekend. I would hope that giving her a break would let her rest and recharge, so that she’ll be in a better position to spend quality time with you afterward.
Sooo..you’re just a controlling asshole?
whose trying to using “progressive” ideals as a cover for straight up controlling behavior?
deal breaker? cool! hope you have a plan for child support! 🤣