Every day there’s another xhundred million being sent as “aid” for a foreign war which could be stopped by just honoring the original agreement which NATO had to not surround Russia.

46 comments

  2. Isolationism is really bad foreign policy. Doing what Russia wants would be even worse.

  4. >original agreement which NATO had to not surround Russia

    Do you have the text of this agreement? I’ve heard rumors of it, but nobody seems to actually have a real agreement.
    Is it real?

  5. If Russia would stop being so damn hostile to everyone, the countries around them wouldn’t care so much about joining NATO.

    Also, we can easily afford to do both. It’s not an either/or situation.

  6. Are you concerned with the annual payments to Israel to help stop a war from happening, or just the Ukraine money for the current war?

    Feels like you are using US “struggling” as a reason to not be involved?

    And do you feel like the US is struggling more right now? Where would you like to see the money spent instead?

  7. Bullshit.

    The US never signed an agreement giving Russia permission to invade Ukraine, and the US never signed an agreement promising not to defend innocent people.

    Even if we did, it wouldn’t be legally enforceable by our own nor international laws.

  9. The question you’re really asking is, if this country has that much money, why are so many people struggling? And the answer is, good question.

  10. A couple hundred billion to defang Russia and solidify our European alliances? A bargain.

  11. Just wait until you see how much is sent to other countries not named Ukraine.

    Btw, the original NATO agreement was with the USSR. That entity no longer exists, so the agreement is moot.

  12. The only way this war could’ve been stopped is by Ukraine rolling over, which they were and are never going to do.

    The idea that the US broke some agreement with Russia is asinine. I’ve studied international relations at university for 4 years, if you know of some treaty I missed, please link it.

  13. I don’t think it’s an issue of money as much as policy when it comes to our domestic problems.

  14. There are no American casualties. Supporting Ukraine is the cheapest way to reduce Putin’s hold on Russia.

    You need a 101 on geopolitics.

  15. The US and Americans as a whole are not struggling.

    Why do you believe aid needs to be justified at all? Justified to who?

    Can you cite the document(s) that contain whatever agreement you are talking about between NATO and Russia?

    The only nation that can end the war in Ukraine unilaterally is the same one that started it unilaterally, Russia.

  16. You had me in the first half and it’s a good question.

    So why did you have to go lose all credibility with the second half?

  17. Russia’s vast imperialist ambitions make conflict inevitable. If the U.S. can halt that by sending money instead of troops, that’s a good thing.

  18. You appear to be a conspiracy theory loon. Can’t really take your question seriously.

  20. No need to understand any actual history or context.

    All you need to know:

    * Russia bad.
    * Putin impulsive madman.
    * Ukraine victim.

    ​

    # THIS.

    #

    # IS.

    #

    # REDDIT!

  21. TLDR: The only real threats to the US government are adversarial governments like Russia that can destabilize regions and markets and Americans ourselves. Keeping us poor, sick, and stupid keeps us from being a problem; keeping Russians from taking over Ukraine keeps Europe as a market (and actually expands it for American companies)

    Regardless of the validity of your claim that NATO and the Russian Federation had an agreement to limit NATO’s growth, what’s done can’t easily be undone. Russia is known for its realism in international politics and, on some level, is well-aware that the US couldn’t kick countries out of NATO even if it wanted to, and the current increase in membership is a direct result of understandable fears on behalf of Sweden and Finland given Putin’s behavior.

    What you’re really saying is that the US/NATO forced Putin’s hand, but the fact is that we can’t undo anything that happened in the past, and our realistic options at the moment are to appease Putin or help Ukraine— others have explained why our government chose to do the latter (and, realistically, Russia would do exactly the same if the shoe were on the other foot). If “might makes right” is the only language that Putin speaks, the US will give Ukraine might because it’s ultimately in our financial interests to not have Europe devolve into another of its habitual squabbles— dead people don’t buy, sell, or produce anything, and that’s bad for us.

    As for why the government sends billions abroad while we struggle, the answer is mostly that it is more afraid of external threats than internal ones, or at least feels more able to control us without paying us off (or more aware that it’s already paying off the only real threats through its corporate socialism).

  22. Our defense spending, while massive, is but 3.1% of GDP.

    That people are struggling at home is a separate issue caused by bad social policies.

    Not trying to defend our foreign policy in this post by any means, but cutting money sent abroad won’t help Americans at home if we keep electing politicians that just want to see that money pocketed.

  23. The U.S. has sent about [$75 billion in aid to Ukraine](https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts) in the about year and a half since the war started. That’s about $4.1 billion per month.

    To put that in perspective, the Agency for International Development’s (USAID) annual appropriation is [about $49.5 billion (0.37% of annual spending), also about $4.1 billion per month](https://www.usaspending.gov/agency).

    The annual appropriations for the Department if Defense is more than $2 trillion, or about $166.6 billion per month.

    The U.S. aid to Ukraine is not even noticeable in the U.S. budget.

  25. Well, first things first, there is and never was an official agreement or treaty that prohibited NATO from expanding into Eastern Europe it was an agreement that never went anywhere.

    Second, where emptying out our back stock into Ukraine were not sending actual money over so these aid and munition packages are worth millions, we’re not actually sending millions, we are just emptying out our storage sheds and charging Ukraine for half the price as they plan on joining nato at the end of this. Also, these deals help Americans workers as army contracts to refill the sheds are big bucks, and business owners are required to pay a higher wage.

  27. Lol, do you think this Russian troll realizes that the money we’ve sent to Ukraine has literally been a drop in the bucket to our government?

    As in, it’s literally unnoticeable to the public.

  28. Aid to Ukraine is incredibly cost efficient for defense and foreign policy spending.

  30. >Every day there’s another xhundred million being sent as “aid” for a foreign war which could be stopped by just honoring the original agreement which NATO had to not surround Russia.

    Oh! Boy! I get to tear into another Russian revisionist lie! My favorite!

    >Every day there’s another xhundred million being sent as “aid” for a foreign war

    This is two fold.

    A.) Keeping the fight in Ukraine and containing Russia’s aggression there is infinitely cheaper than allowing it to spill into a NATO country, which would result in NATO troops dying. As cold as it sounds, this is simply how defense works.

    B.) This war is allowing NATO to weaken a historically aggressive and imperialistic nation that routinely threatens the sovereignty of many of its member states. If there was a bully constantly threatening your little brother with death, would you not seize the moment to crush his kneecaps and break his back permanently in order to protect your little brother? That is exactly what NATO is doing.

    > which could be stopped by just honoring the original agreement which NATO had to not surround Russia.

    And here is the Russian revisionist lie.

    This never happened. The agreement was to not put weapons in ***Eastern Germany***, which NATO never did. Even Gorbachev, the man who negotiated this, came out and said that NATO never promised to not expand. The agreement was solely not militarizing Eastern Germany.

    Second, NATO poses no threat to Russia. Russia has invaded more European states, violated the sovereignty of Europeans and killed more Europeans than NATO ever has.

    This isn’t the 1950’s anymore. Russia doesn’t get to dictate what Eastern Europe does anymore.

  31. It could also just be stopped by us gifting Ukraine a few nukes. After all, Russia broke the agreement that they would not invade Ukraine in return for Ukraine giving up their nuclear weapons.

  33. NATO never made any such agreement, to my knowledge. There was a casual, verbal “We’ll see what we can do” kind of thing, back in the Bush I or Clinton administrations, but that isn’t the same thing as a firm agreement or treaty.

    I am aware that the Russian government has made noises about believing there was an agreement, but there wasn’t.

    Anyway, frankly, “Why are you spending the money to not let me conquer whoever I want” is not a compelling argument.

  34. *”…another xhundred million being sent as “aid”*

    Do you have any idea that it’s aid, military and civilian goods being sent and not cash? Should we provide some US citizens with artillery rounds, missile defense systems? Military medical supplies?

    Plus get a grip on what kind of finances modern countries go through. “X” hundred million is not a burden when the US government spends about $7 million a MINUTE, every hour of every day all year long. The amount of aid that the US has forwarded to Ukraine is about how much they’ve spend since sundown here at my house a couple of hours ago.

    Then aid to Ukraine that the US has forwarded to them in the last 16 months has cost me personally maybe $3.00 for the entire package, a price I can happily condone, keep it going.

    Then also NATO never agreed to *”not surround Russia”*, there’s never been any agreement even close to that.

  37. Simple, hostile foreign powers like Russia are a direct threat to my well-being.

  38. It’s BECAUSE of Russia’s belligerence that both Finland and Sweden decided “Screw it, we’re joining NATO”. It’s also because of Russia’s belligerence that after this war is over Ukraine will very likely be fast tracked to join too. Also wouldn’t be surprised to see Georgia eventually join as well. Russia being “surrounded” is a nightmare of their own making. Everyone still neutral saw Russia invade Ukraine and thought “I bet I’m next, better do something about that”. This is the international version of stealing a cookie, getting caught and spanked for it, then blaming everyone but yourself and your own action for getting spanked. NATO isn’t conquering Russia’s neighbors, joining is voluntary and they want to join for reasons that should be obvious to anyone with a functioning brain. There was no actual agreement and it wouldn’t be happening if Russia wasn’t actively belligerent every chance they get.

    Also much of the “aid” was bought and paid for a long time ago. The vast majority of military equipment being sent has been sitting in warehouses for decades. IRL is not an RTS where units don’t exist until you order them. We’re basically getting rid of a small portion of our old stock to defang an old rival that constantly makes themselves out to be a threat to everyone. It’s an absolute bargain. We’re not literally spending X hundred million as you put it, it’s a value statement of the package. That pile of Bradleys, patriots, DPICM shells, small arms ammo, and other good stuff is worth that much and again, most off it was paid off ages ago. Some of the stuff that has been sent was straight up paid off in the 60s and 70s before spending half a century sitting in a warehouse waiting for it’s war.

    As for “struggling”, I can’t eat a Bradley. I can’t eat an Abrams. I can’t eat a Patriot missile. I can’t eat a Javelin. I can’t eat an AT-4. Blocks of C4 are labeled “DO NOT EAT”. And again, nearly all of it was paid for ages ago. Get it out of your head that we’re literally sending pallets of cash that could totally be used by any random Joe on the street. The biggest raw cost is probably shipping which honestly isn’t that big a deal for the nation with the absolute best military logistics on the planet. I’d sure love to have a Bradley of my very own. I’d hug him and squeeze him and call him George. But George is doing much more for the world in Ukraine than he would in my driveway. He’s also doing what he was straight up made to do.

  39. Russia’s actions are the one and only reason NATO’s on their front door. NATO didn’t force those countries to join, they joined because Russia has **never**, in the history of their entire existence, been a benevolent and stable neighbor. Anybody that says differently is either a paid prop account or so gullible I’d wager they think the Earth’s flat without a hint of irony.

  40. Because we’ve learned the cost of ignoring issues abroad and the money we spend overseas wouldn’t make a huge impact on issues that stem from deeply ingrained issues.

  41. Every time the Democrats try to help the average American the GOP blocks it.

    In any event not much money is being sent, and a lot of the money has already been allocated to National Defense, just redirected to foreign war

  42. The United States sends relatively little money abroad compared to the overall federal budget. Foreign aid rarely exceeds 1% of the budget.

    There never was any agreement to “not surround Russia.” That being said, most of the former Warsaw Pact nations wanted to join NATO and The EU to escape from potential future Russian aggression. Neither the US nor NATO was going to deny them the opportunity.

    Perhaps if Russia was acting in such a barbaric and aggressive matter, their neighbors wouldn’t be so eager to join anti-Russian alliances?

  43. A majority of the aid sent to Ukraine by the US isn’t just cash payments, but military hardware that’s been sitting around collecting dust. ~~Giving me an armored fighting vehicle won’t help me pay rent~~ okay, yeah, an armored fighting vehicle would help me pay my rent but that’s extremely wishful thinking.

    That aside, full-scale war in Europe has a direct impact on the world’s economy. Halting Russia’s post-soviet imperialism as soon as possible stands to benefit everyone. The sooner Putin’s dog ass gets thunder-runned out of Ukraine, the sooner things can creep back to semi-normalcy.

  44. It’s really not necessary. This war isn’t necessary, but America wanted this war because our government wants endless war. None of these wars benefit ordinary Americans, but they benefit big corporations and the military industrial complex. Somehow many Americans have been led to believe that endless war is a good tradeoff for poor social services. It’s truly sad to see so many people suffering at home while our government wastes hundreds of billions on overseas wars of choice.

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