Everyone argues and I get that it’s fine. But the problem is when we argue she says incredibly hurtful things, personal attacks. She will say things like you should know that because you have a master’s degree in it. That’s the reason why your kids won’t talk to you anymore ( a very sensitive topic for me that she clearly understands). You’re a narcissist. You’re self centered.
Now, once things settle down and that point out to her that those things are unfair, she apologizes and she does seem remorseful about it. I’ve explained to her that those kind of attacks are completely inappropriate and are not okay. She understood and agreed. However, months later we had another argument and she did the same things.
So here’s what I need help with. While those attacks are not okay, they are only said by her during a very heated argument. Should I be forgiving of them afterwards because she was really angry and she doesn’t do these things normally or even when we’re having mild disagreements? Is this a serious problem? Or is it a problem that’s not so serious? Also, wouldn’t you agree that if she says these things during a heated argument, that she must really be thinking these things during non-argument times? Am I holding on to these things too long? Once she apologizes for them should I just drop feeling hurt and not hold on to/remember these things? Is she a verbal abuser or is it not verbal abuse because the hurtful thing said we’re during a heated argument? Am I in an abusive relationship?
Any other thoughts or advice on this topic would be much appreciated.
37 comments
Frankly, if my partner said “that’s why your kids don’t talk to you” as a ploy to hurt me they wouldn’t be my partner anymore
She can’t apologize and continue to do it: it means her apology wasn’t genuine. If she cannot help herself, she needs to talk to a therapist (on her own, not a couples therapist with you) right away. She’s hurting you on purpose, and yeah, that’s abusive.
Actions don’t match words. Red flag
Devaluation during arguments. Red flag
Apologises and ‘understands’ but repeats same insults. Red flag.
Calling you a narcissistic – projection / red flag.
The reason you are so confused about this and have so many questions is that you are currently experiencing cognitive dissonance. This is when your head tells you one thing, your heart tells you another, and you can’t work out the truth.
Cognitive dissonance occurs in a relationship where one partner behaves in a way that is injurious to their SO, but is able to convince them that they are sorry and will do better -and then they don’t. This leaves the SO confused, not understanding, thinking they may be guilty party, wondering if they are overthinking etc.
It’s being done, on purpose, to keep you confused. It’s a classic tactic of the emotional
abuser.
Other tactics are described in my opening paragraph.
Severe arguments (or rages) come about when you do or say something to injure her ego. She then creates the perfect scenario to invoke an argument so she can devalue (insult) you.
Rages are a trait of the emotional abuser.
I suggest you get reading online about the traits of the emotional abuser. Read about devaluation, love bombing, cognitive dissonance and behavioural traits and red flags.
When you have done this you will understand everything far more clearly. Much of what you read will resonate with you.
Once you know what you are dealing with it will be easier for you to decide your next step but I can tell you that reasoning will not work. You can’t reason with someone who is engineering the situation to begin with. She doesn’t want to be reasoned out of it because it suits her very well just as it is.
Sorry bud. This isn’t what you wanted to hear, but it’s what you need to hear.
If she apologizes and continues to do it then her apologies are worthless. If you tolerate it then your complaints are worthless.
This is common of someone with a personality disorder when they feel like they are being attacked or rejected. Do you generally feel like you have to walk on eggshells around her because she is easily triggered by things you do or say?
I can’t say that she definitely has a PD, but it might be something to think about. Regardless, that doesn’t excuse her behaviour. You need to set clear boundaries – if she calls you names or makes a personal attack that isn’t relevant to the discussion, you walk away and refuse to continue the conversation.
If it’s hurting you, then it is a problem
Once she starts with that, stop the argument right there.
“That was uncalled for so I will end the conversation right here until you’re ready to communicate about [insert topic of discussion here] without making personal attack or without being hurtful.”
Then you walk away. Hopefully she takes a handle on that before you’re at your limit.
The break allows everyone a chance to clear their heads. As you practice, it’ll become a habit of recognizing when things are getting too intense and pausing. Don’t want to create more issues than the actual issue. Lastly, you’re supposed to be tackling problems ideally together and not turning against each other. I’m sorry you have to deal with that, man.
If my gf said “that’s why your kids don’t talk to you” I would Immediately break up with her.
I don’t even have kids and reading that hurt.
If it happens once and it’s been talked about and apologized for, it should not happen again. If this has happened multiple times she clearly is not willing to grow and change
Would you be asking if you should forgive it if she had punched you in the jaw or forced you to have sex when you said no repeatedly? Abuse is abuse and shouldn’t be forgiven, ‘I got mad and did it on accident’ isn’t an excuse for being abusive.
“Be careful with your words. Once they are said, they can only be forgiven, not forgotten.”
Harsh words and insults are never okay during an argument. What you say, you mean, even if it’s only in the moment. Those words hurt and they continue to hurt forever. Apologies don’t make it better and don’t take away the hurt. I think you have every right to be upset.
If it happens multiple times, it’s really not okay. She needs to reflect on how she feels. And she needs to control her tongue during arguments.
As a Narcissistic abuse survivor, I’m just going to say it:
YOU MARRIED A NARCISSIST
A Narcissist will verbally attack you, to destroy your self-worth. They will exploit every loophole there is to WIN AT ALL COST.
THERE IS NO CURE FOR NARCISSISM.
Chances are you grew up in a similar environment.
You were probably love-bombed and that sealed the deal.
So, how can you fix this???
You need to do your homework and find a therapist whose expertise is in Narcissist ABUSE. IT MUST BE THIS TYPE, because your wife will manipulate the therapy sessions and flip it that IT IS YOU WHO IS THE PROBLEM, and not her. LET ME WARN YOU, a true Narcissist who will be called out WILL NEVER WANT TO ATTEND THOSE THERAPY SRSSIONS AGAIN AND BLAME IT ON THE THERAPIST NOT HER BEHAVIOR!!!
And this is where you are left with 2 decisions.
A) Continue being married to a Narcissist who will poison your children’s mind (happened to me, when my mom brainwashed me about my dad and she did a marvelous job isolating me from family and my father. My dad died broken).
OR
B) Understand she will never change and that you deserve to be respected, and get a divorce.
If you have kids, ask for full custody. And like Johnny Depp ask for a psychological evaluation, the reason? You believe (we know it) she is a Narcissist and will manipulate her children to hate their father. Will do everything so you can’t see her kids. Will subject them to the same abuse you were subjected to. And worse brainwash to hate their dad. If you are smart, choose a lawyer with a psychology background whose dealt with manipulate spouses in the past, mental illness even better.
Re-write your will IMMEDIATELY and who are your benefiary because if something happened to you in the middle of the divorce, and you left her EVERYTHING, SHE WILL GET EVERYTHING. And the court will honor your will in the middle of a messy divorce. BE SMART, START CHANGING YOUR WILL AND THE BENEFIARY RIGHT NOW. Lock your bank account and create a new one she has no access too. Same with your credit cards. IM NOT JOKING. MY MOTHER THE NARC, PUT ME IN DEBT AND LEGALLY I HAD TO PAY IT OFF. SHE ALSO STOLE MY INHERITANCE MY DAD LEFT FOR ME BECAUSE THE COURTS LEFT HER IN CHARGE OF THAT MONEY IN GOOD FAITH THAT ONCE I TURN 18, THE MONEY WILL BE TURNED OVER. THAT NEVER HAPPENED. She stole 60k. And thanks to Statue of limitations I CANNOT SUE HER.
DIVORCE, CONTINUE WITH THERAPY FOR NARCISSISTIC ABUSE. Because if you dont, wife #2 will be just like her.
Don’t fall for love bombing. Don’t marry fast. Set boundaries. TAKE THE RELATIONSHIP SLOW. UNDO WHATEVER TRAUMA THAT LED YOU TO WIFE #1
I wish you well 🙏
Wtf she knows how hurtful it is & she’s still trying to tear you down
No, she needs to learn to argue like a grown up and stop being so childish. Couples that love and respect eachother, shouldn’t be shouting at eachother anyway. Tell her if she needs time to cool down, she can go and take it, but you *will not* be spoken to like that again and you *will* leave if she cannot show you basic respect. Personal attacks in an argument are never okay.
Imo she needs therapy & you need to get away from her. She’s verbally abusive & she’s not sorry. If she was, she wouldn’t say the things she does, mid argument or not. When my husband & I have disagreements/arguments, we don’t throw things in each other’s face. We don’t bring each other down. We eventually talk things out. This is not healthy. Arguments are bound to happen, but it’s how you handle them is what matters most.
She’s just cold 🥶 & those comments, especially the one regarding your children, is beyond heartless. You don’t deserve that. After the comment, you should have left her.
I wish you all the best, OP.
I’m so blessed I’m not in one of these numerous f’ed up relationships
If I were with someone and I trusted them enough to open up about something that hurts me deeply and she were to turn around and use that to inflict pain on me, it would immediately eliminate any trust I had in her whatsoever. She would not have received another opportunity to do it again tbh
Going down the drain.
This is how my ex was. Personal insults, ridiculing my body, racial slurs whenever she got mad. It didn’t get better, she got worse over time and eventually escalated to physically hitting me. Sorry you are doing through this, but she won’t change. You need to put clear boundaries down now and when she violates them, there has to be some repercussions. Frankly I would say you need to end it with her. It won’t get better, she is incapable of regulating her anger.
My abusive narcissistic ex beat into my head for 2 years every time he was upset or inconvenienced in any little way that I’m a terrible person, terrible mother, nobody loves me, even my kids hate to be with me or around me. Even my kids, friends family etc hate me because I’m such an unstable horrible person.
It’s not you. There’s nothing wrong with you or anything that you do. Everything will fall into place. I would not accept that though. I hope I’m not alone forever but I prefer that over misery.
“That’s why your kids don’t talk to you” is a low blow… that gatta hurt bro.
She’s as emotionally abusive as my dad was.
Narcissistic, belittling, always apologizing but continuing to do the same shit over and over again.
Forgiveness is always a must. I believe that. Forgiveness doesn’t necessarily equate to reconciliation, though. Everyone has their breaking points. You must establish yours. Eventually, a boundary must be affirmed. You’ve stated this behavior from her isn’t ok. But what have you done beyond that? I’m not a fan of ultimatums, but at times they’re necessary. Start at forgiveness, then make a decision when your conscience and heart are clear.
Wow, she seems like she’s gaslighting you and manipulative.
No, you shouldn’t forgive on principle alone. Yes, this is abusive.
Stop engaging with her when she does this. Literally turn your back and leave the room, and do not utter a single additional word regardless of how far she goes. This will show you if she is trying to improve. She will realize what happened and stop, or she will escalate, and you’ll know that she doesn’t care.
Do with that knowledge what you will.
I wouldn’t put up with that. Angry people suck. She sees a therapist and gets it under control or you walk
I can relate to this topic because I was your gf for a long time. When i would get into a heated argument and the person brought you something unrelated to use against me or if I felt the argument was more of a personal attack than it was debating a particular issue I would say the worst thing that popped into my head.
I didn’t really mean to most of the time but I almost always said it before I had even processed how bad it was to say it. I called it a “red out” because it was like my vision went completely red and I couldn’t control myself to not say something terrible.
It took me getting into some anger management therapy to learn to think before I spoke. No matter how bad an argument I got to where when I felt that I was about to hit “red out” I could stop myself. I would usually just hold up my hand so that the person would know I was trying to control myself.
>Should I be forgiving of them afterwards because she was really angry and she doesn’t do these things normally or even when we’re having mild disagreements?
That depends on you. If you feel like it’s something you can forgive then do so but I don’t recommend forgiving her so easily. If you just sweep it under the rug due to it being said in anger she has no reason to stop.
>? Is this a serious problem? Or is it a problem that’s not so serious?
Like I said above that depends on how if affects you. If it causing you alot a stress and pain and make you consider staying with her then yes its a problem. Since you’re posting about it I think you already know it is.
>Also, wouldn’t you agree that if she says these things during a heated argument, that she must really be thinking these things during non-argument times?
Not necessarily. If I knew something would hurt the other person even if I didn’t feel that way I would still say it because I knew how hard it would hit. I luckily had a better handle on it when my wife and I got together but she still had to help me with several of my anger issues.
>Am I holding on to these things too long? Once she apologizes for them should I just drop feeling hurt and not hold on to/remember these things? Is she a verbal abuser or is it not verbal abuse because the hurtful thing said we’re during a heated argument? Am I in an abusive relationship?
I don’t think you’re holding on to it too long I just think it’s really hurting you which is why you are holding on to this issue. While apologizes are nice they don’t always fix the issue or remove the hurt. She definitely sounds like a verbal abuser but selective when to do it.
You guys need some couples and individual therapy if you’re planning to stay together. It helped me alot so hopefully it can help you guys too. Good luck OP
Man, maybe I’m just cold hearted. But, if I had a deep seated trauma like that. And someone targeted that to inflict as much emotional damage to me as possible. They’d be gone. I’d let them get by with it the first time. After that. I’m single. But, then again. I’m also petty. I’d completely eviscerate her verbally. I WILL FIRE BOMB THE ENTIRE STATE IF I HAVE TO! COLLATERAL DAMAGE IS EXPECTED
Therapy
Hi there bud. I know how it is I was marry for 18 yrs to find out my wife was bipolar and multiple personality. She hit me or the kids I use to get beweent her and the kids took a lot of blows til I got tried of it push her back if she hite I hit her. It was very bad.
That the job I had was shift work two week day two week nights. I went with her to her doctor appointment once about this the doctor put on bipolar meds. Told us it be one week before it took affect. Sure one week went by she stop taking all meds together “. She said it made me feel funny”. We got divorced
When she start that again video tape her and afterwards show her how mean and hateful she is
You gotta get rid of this woman. She seems to bipolar. Going off and purposely trying to hurt you. No, no more forgiveness. It IS verbal abuse. The reason she keeps getting away with his because you keep forgiving her. Stop doing that.
I (25F) did this to an ex between the ages of 15 and 18. I grew up and no longer do that and have apologized immensely for my immature behavior. She is way too old to behave that way – I suggest you both take a break, and she explores therapy to learn more appropriate coping mechanisms for anger.
I understand psychologically why she might do that (it’s a way to avoid accountability and shift the argument from something useful to something where you’re distracted by defending yourself), but… she’s 48. She ought to seek some professional help for this issue…it isn’t fair for her to continue to emotionally and verbally abuse you because of her own issues as a grown adult. For you, I would learn about setting boundaries to cut off these unproductive conversations.
She sounds likes she’s not emotionally intelligent and doesn’t know how to control herself when discussing relationship issues. I’ve never been one to listen to ‘apologies’ of repeat offenders. An apology is obviously not fixing her behavior because she’s repeatedly attacking you. And to answer your questions, you are holding onto the hurt because you know the apology doesn’t change anything- I’m guessing she thinks an apology is a valid way to erase hurt. You also don’t trust what she ‘really’ thinks of you because, yes, she thinks those things when you’re not arguing. And lastly, my dude, this is a serious red flag and a gargantuan one!! I stayed in a marriage with someone who’s excuse was always ‘ but I apologized why can’t you let it go – you’re the problem.’
I made my plans, distanced myself, worked on me and left. Found the real deal 2 years later with someone who can actually talk through a disagreement and make our relationship stronger. Don’t settle for this treatment please.
Is counseling an option?
And that’s why man don’t open up 🤷♂️
Yyyaaaaa…. if you’re not ready to bail yet, I understand because I was in a relationship like this once upon a time long ago. I told her that one day, her apology won’t mean shit and it will just be over. One morning after a particularly heated argument where she had said a lot of hurtful things, I woke up, and when I looked at her, I had zero romantic feelings for her. I knew right there it was over. What I learned from that relationship was to never compromise my self worth. To never allow someone to speak that way to me and stay in my life. That wasn’t love. That wasn’t respect. That was dragging out something that should have ended months before it actually did. I think deep down you know what you’ve got to do. Prolonging it only wastes time you could be working on something better.
It is abuse. It sounds like you handle all very well though. How you deal with it is up to you. Consider the damage it does, not only to you, but to your family who witness it. At your age, I would assume you know all of your options… yes?