I am an autistic woman who experience other women disliking me for no reason. I do not have this issue with men. Men are generally more patient and decent to me.
Women at my work pick at me and give me subtle rude comments that doesn’t make sense to the context of the situation. (Making me believe that they carry past resentment for me or something I did) even though we’ve never introduced ourselves.
My bf’s mother was hostile and rude to my face on multiple occasions.
Women at my previous school were uncomfortable around me.
I once heard a girl in my class talk shit behind my back, saying that my facial expressions were weird, like I was trying to look cute and quirky on purpose.
I want to understand the reason why I offend women so much.
47 comments
I mean do you offend all women? Jealousy could be why sure, but I mean I am conscious of these things because I do get jealous sometimes but I notice it. For instance new girl at my work, she’s super adorable and a total sweetheart and I’m naturally a little threatened by her, but I’m aware of it and I certainly don’t treat her badly because of it, I like her a lot actually despite my base tendencies towards jealousy lol. But if every woman you meet dislikes you you may have a problem.
Do you have social anxiety? I know for me I’m socially awkward and I’ve gotten a lot better, but I used to appear very unfriendly at first. And guys who were attracted to me would be more forgiving because I would have that appeal to them, whereas girls would just be generally disinterested because I would be accidentally rude or even just seem boring.
Sometimes I’ve disliked someone out of jealoush because they have the family I wish I had and are beautiful, or if they talk about touch subjects regarding me behind my back, (neither is good but those are the 2) otherwise I typically don’t. I have a spectrum adjacent condition buts it’s not asd. Hope this helps.
Now I don’t have enough context to know how you act in these situations. I don’t know how talkative or distant you are when you talk to other women. One thing that my autistic sister has a habit of doing is not really engaging with other people when the discussion/activity is not within their interest. This kinda is related to the “not like the other girls” phenomenon. Other women have very unique and intrinsic lives and I guarantee you are not the only one who feels out of place. And as a woman, I hate when certain women act like they are better than other women because they believe they are more unique and won’t give them the time of day.
I’m not saying you’re doing that at all cause I can’t really tell from your post, but I thought this might be something to ponder about.
Sometimes people dislike you by you just being “weird” to them. People like other people who are cool and smooth and fun. If you’re not cool not fun not smooth and kinda cringe then some people might not like you.
I’m autistic too and have experienced the same. I think it’s to do with the subtle social cues we seem to miss which men don’t make but idk what specifically they are. I’ve always found female friendships are a lot more work than males.
Reasons I don’t like some women which aren’t anything they did to me:
– crying all the time like every time you see them, they’re crying about something
– loud ppl but unnecessarily loud like they always talk over ppl and seem to talk in a louder volume than the conversation
– ppl who seem to need to know everything and are always talking about other ppl
I’m also an autistic woman and generally feel more comfortable around men (which is ironic, I know). I think a lot of autistic women can relate. I’ve also been called stuck up/rude/”bad vibes” etc when I’m not doing anything. People hate quiet women with RBFs, or awkward women, or just anyone who is “different”, and it seems like women judge people for this sort of thing more harshly than men do.
The Middle aged ladies at work don’t like me but the older ones do. I used to be very good at doing what you do like smiling and talking to them and greeting them. I don’t do it anymore because they ignore me or talk over me and give me evil looks. One of them is nice to my sister and NEVER ignores her but still gives evil looks. It’s strange because it’s not her resting or concentrating face. Women my age in my polytech said they liked me but also never talked to me for the first couple terms because I looked like a bitch and scary which is so sweet! 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️ once the talked to me or I had talked to them they realised I was shy not an asshole 🥴 I think there’s more than one reason sometimes
It might not be you at all. Autistic people are significantly more likely to be perceived as rude and unlikeable by neurotypical people.
You might mask too little or too much for their liking and that should be their problem.
Women are more socially complex then men, and typically have higher social expectations for other women. This is why a lot of neurodivergent women tend to gravitate towards men as friends. This doesn’t do us any favours for obvious reasons.
I’m also blunt, and I don’t really think through all the possible ways that I could offend someone before I say it, I don’t I will ever have the ability to do that. If you feel comfortable, you can explain that you’re neurodivergent and that sometimes you say things that are just poorly worded, and that you have a hard time being delicate or reading between the lines. This might help you catch a break from the social expectations that you won’t be able to meet. Try to do this in a way where it feels like you’re confiding in them and asking for their help or support, women love being helpful and supportive and teaching so a lot of them will happily take you under their wing or give you the benefit of the doubt. Especially if they’re older than you.
I am also autistic. There is a fascinating and extremely complex form of non verbal communication a lot of women learn from a young age. I’m fascinated by it because people are my special interest in general, and things like language can be so nuanced depending on things like how you’re standing when you speak, what tone you’re using, how often you look to other women for confirmation, make eye contact, what words you choose to use. All of this is conveys tons of information to allistic women, but a lot of autistic women miss it entirely. We very often mean exactly what we say and nothing more. Since this isn’t how most women were trained to communicate with other women, we make them uncomfortable because we’re ignoring the other, complex, non verbal things they’re telling us, and we’re not offering much back in return. It makes them feel weird and like they can’t trust us.
Of course, knowing this doesn’t actually do me much good besides being interesting. I know it exists and I can identify it, but I can’t believably imitate it reliably. Oh, well.
The only times I’ve ever disliked another woman is when they do things that I don’t personally condemn. These are some of my personal reasons for avoiding certain women.
– verbally, mentally, or physically abusive
– they’re rude, condescending, or arrogant
– they take advantage of others
I grew up in a dysfunctional family that used the above almost on a daily so, I tend to avoid those people like the plague.
Everyone is different and have their own reasons, some reasonable and some not, for disliking you. My advice would be not to bother trying to be liked by anyone unless they are necessary for your personal goals (i.e. your manager or professors).
Just from reading your comments, I can understand being annoyed by some things you do — and not because they are objectively bad, they’re just my personal pet peeves. For example, implying women over 30 are elderly. I’m only 23 now but I imagine I’d feel extremely hurt being called elderly when I’m 35 or 40. Also you say you smile a lot, make eye contact, and greet people everyday — I’m an introvert with social anxiety so that would make me feel pressured to do it back and would be annoying to me. Again, none of these things are objectively bad, they can just rub certain people the wrong way and there’s no merit in attempting to make every single person like you.
I sometimes think people of the same gender as you judge you more harshly for being awkward, cause they have a more extensive knowledge of the subtle social norms you’re breaking and of what you should be doing.
There are lots of subtle social ques that ND folk can miss.
I always wonder about this when I meet ND guys who only have female friends, and ND women who only make male friends. But it’s just a theory. There can be lots of factors.
In my experience, for example, I found a lot of the gender norms growing up as a woman in my culture annoying. So, I didn’t do them. Men didn’t tend to care, but it would annoy some women.
Your neurodivergence breaks the “woman 4th wall,” they generally dont like the honesty or astute observations, theres a lot of subtlety to the hierarchy of neurotypical women and you disrupt that. Me too…
Initially I was gonna say it’s probably your tone, and that you need to ask them to listen to your words not your tone.
But after you mentioned a girl assuming your facial expressions are weird, I think you need to ask them to listen to your words, not your tone, not your facial expressions.
I just finished an audio book titled Eleanor Oliphant is Completely Fine by Gail Honeyman. She was also a social outcast in her office. I enjoyed the book of course she had a lot of things to work out to get to the root cause of her social anxieties, however as I listened to her journey there were things I could relate to myself. It could be a heavy read for some though.
I wish I knew the answer to the question, as a woman I adore other women and crave friendship from them but I find other woman tend to not like me even though they don’t me. It sucks.
I’m an autistic guy and I get this. Most of my guy friends have completely understood and are pretty good at dealing with my weird shit. But yeah usually unless a girl is also autistic or possibly neurodivergent in some way, we don’t normally get along. I’m extremely straight forward and if for some kind of reason, I feel like I’ve been dishonest I get extremely uncomfortable. Most of them haven’t been aggressive, just put off. I don’t really know why but just saying yeah, I’ve noticed this too.
Hey,
I haven’t got an explanation – but I feel the same way! I struggle building friendships with women and have a lot of mean experiences through work, school and mother in law’s.
Hm, that reminds me : years ago I was watching Silicon Valley with my ex, and I (man) absolutely loved Laurie Bream, who plays an autistic woman. My ex (woman) disliked her for reasons I still don’t get
These clowns probably see you as a pick me
Ignore them
I go through the exact thing with a lot of women, also have autism. None of my past partners’ moms or sisters ever seemed to like me. Hell, my own mother-in-law absolutely fucking hates me for *no* reason. She was very toxic, though, so my husband cut her out of his life. It made me so sad in a way, because I don’t have a great mom and always wanted to have a mother-in-law (or a big/little sister at least lol) that I could be close to. :/ And the way I was treated at previous jobs from other women is just so awful and degrading. 99% of the men I have met in my life have been very kind to me, and I always felt closer to guys because of that. I don’t understand what it is. I’m happy to know I am not alone!
Idk i gave up. All my friends are either on the spectrum, adhd, or some other neurodivergent. Its so much better to have people i can be myself around.
Isn’t it amazing we gotta try hard to be normal but because we aren’t realizing what our faces look like we just get judged?
By reading other people’s comments I think the fact that you feel more comfortable around men doesn’t really help you at all.
If women don’t even like you and they see you around men more often they probably will think you’re a pick me girl.
Also, what are your hobbies and what do you like talking about in general?
If your interests are male dominated maybe that’s another thing that won’t help you.
I’m not saying you should change everything about you, I’m just pointing a few things that may help you understand the situation better.
My theory is that women pick up on more subtle cues (that you probably aren’t giving on purpose) that men miss or don’t care about. So women are more likely to take offense at something that you weren’t aware of, or didn’t intend, because they’re more attuned to it.
Quick example I’ll give in a conversation I had with a woman a couple weeks ago. The entire time she wasn’t smiling, and I had this sensation that either she wasn’t interested in the conversation, or that she didn’t like me.
I do know that she is a person who tends to rarely smile. That’s just her habit or her natural way of carrying herself. I KNOW that. But in spite of knowing that, it was VERY difficult for me to shake the sensation that she was bored with me or maybe didn’t like me.
So that’s the sort of thing you may be up against.
Unfortunately some people feel the need to bring others down to bring themselves up, entirely unprovoked.
Honestly.. I don’t know.
I just needed to get this off my chest, I apologize for the wall of text.
I recently quit a job as an ER Veterinary Assistant after only 4 months, mostly due to lack of training, but there was this one woman who really made every day a bad day with her which prompt me to quit sooner then I would have liked. I’ll call her “N”. She is an ICU Vet Assistant, we worked along side eachother and she was supposed to be one of my mentors.
I didn’t know how to do reception after 2 weeks on the job (due to absolutely no training, even though i constantly asked), so N had to go up front instead of me. She loudly screamed “FUCK!” and threw a pair of tongs into the sink which made a very loud noise scaring the animals we had. Ever since then, she had it out for me.
I’ve never had an issue with coworkers before, so this honestly really took be aback. I would constantly be reprimanded at work from her about things I learned from other assistants and techs. I would do everything she asked me to.. I tried making friends and small talk, but she would never even look at me unless it was to tell me I’m doing something wrong or to move out of the way. If I tried joining in a conversation with her and another coworker, she would just leave. If I asked her for help, she would just do the thing instead of showing me how to do it. I never had opportunities to help out and see what ICU was because of it.
I felt I wasn’t learning what I needed to because she had some sort of grudge against me from my second week on the job. My suspicions were correct.. Another assistant was hired on after me. N took to her IMMEDIATELY showing her the ropes, how to do things. When she would do something wrong that I did before, it was no big deal. What really hurt was I found out all the assistants I worked with went to the beach, including the new one, and I wasn’t invited because N was planning it.
After all that time of trying to be at least on okay terms with N at work, I had enough. It was already an incredibly stressful job with 12 hour rotating shifts, animals dying, dead bodies, low pay and extremely upset clients. I don’t need my coworkers adding to it..
So.. for me, I think it was the lack of knowing how to do something in order to trigger a hateful response.
It was extremely upsetting as I’ve always thought I wanted to work as a vet tech since graduating high school, but I unfortunately never got the opportunity to attend college like my brothers did. When my parents told me that they would not help in any sort of way, it sent me into an extreme depression for years that I wasn’t enough. I felt I didn’t deserve school, an education, or a decent stable job. I finally had the opportunity 8 years later to make my dream come true, and catty women really did ruin it.
I’m a month gone from that job starting as a groomer trainee now with more women. So wish me luck.. 😅
tl;dr: Woman was awful at work because I wasn’t trained on something.
I have similar experiences and I thought maybe it had to do with my being a straightforward person and them being “complicated.” They’re projecting their own nonsense onto me and making unnecessary assumptions…
Whoa this is a weirdly woman bashing comment section that I didn’t expect. All I have to say is ppl don’t just hate for no reason, whether that reason is about you or themselves. Maybe they just pick up on you being neurodivergent and read your behaviors as something negative or inauthentic. Do ppl know that you’re autistic? I know it’s really not their business but that extra bit of vulnerability might allow them to understand you a bit better and be more open toward you as well. Idk I’m not autistic but I was diagnosed adhd and after letting ppl know (not easy at all) it did help ppl not be so put off by me I think. It might even help you feel a bit more comfortable too. I mean forcing ppl to reckon with the fact that they’re hating on a person just bc their brains a little different really highlights, not just to you or everyone around but also to themselves, how much of an A-hole they are or at least it should. Idk, good luck OP
I think individual women, especially nerdy types can be ok, I think groups of women can be tough. They may find you rude or just not like quiet people 🙁
If ppl you don’t know react bad to you at work, someone might have said bad things about you, because they didn’t understand your differences. The most important thing is that other ppl understand you are kind and have good intentions, and it might require explaining that you have learning and social differences for them to understand that in some cases
One thing that can help is, to perhaps record your facial expressions and then practice talking and see what you look like. Then, you can try to change it. Being on a zoom call with a friend while doing this could work too. Trying to be more friendly and outgoing could help. You could also ask if you’ve done something wrong. You could try to see if a work friend can give you feedback maybe?
For specific relationships, like your mother in law, it’s definitely worth having a conversation to see what’s up. Sometimes I can tell what I’m doing wrong in a conversation and try to course correct, for instance; if I interrupt someone, or make too little or too much eye contact.
Good luck, you’re not alone. It’s ok to know that you get along better with guys, and your way of being is not weird! It’s you, and it’s wonderful 🙂
Ok my brain is more on topic now 😀 (I think we all know how that goes 😅)
I think it’s because a lot of neurutypical women worry. They worry about how they’re dressed, how people feel about them and very often if they’re attractive.
And for reasons I couldn’t understand if tried. They constantly compare themselves with other women and come to some pretty harsh judgements.
And there’s us women with autiste generally trying our best and not meaning any harm towards anyone. But darn if malice isn’t right there in air.
You don’t know what your resting face looks like and they’re judging you for it basically. I have a friend like you. She has social awkwardness and certain type of eyes and has a hard time getting along with other women except for me because I’m on the spectrum. If she is, then she is undiagnosed. She just has a face that bothers people. I get a little put off by it too but I know her so well I can get past it.
Insecurity. I don’t think it’s fair for peeps in the comments to just blame Autism. Women are a lot more hostile to other women especially when they’re insecure.
Women are less forgiving of “weirdness”. I have the exact same problem, as I’m also neurodivergent.
>What makes a woman dislike another woman for no reason?
There’s always a reason for liking or disliking someone – it might just not be an obvious one and the person who likes/dislikes another person might not even be aware of that reason.
I’m sure that there are people *you* either like or dislike and you don’t know the reason why that is. Some people simply don’t match.
Ppl who are considered “different than” other ppl already established as a group or are not neurotypically socionormative tend to be more shunned, not necessarily disliked.
Source: am autistic.
honestly society high key pits women against eachother to maintain structure. If there’s enough infighting then any activism won’t get done
It seems you have a problem with women (who are also individuals, like men).
I was like this too when I was younger. I realized the problem was me, I was not unconsciously the one being hostile to women and considering men as kinder, while both just didn’t care. After some abuses I realized it and found some solidarity / some people to understand me when I started thinking otherwise.
have you considered that these people might just be assholes?
As an autistic woman, I used to drive myself to exhaustion trying to give neurotypical women the validation they sought in my facial expressions at work. Now, I see that finally I’m at the table I belong at. One more focused on work, the product, and the results. I’ve found that compliments and genuine interest questions (appropriate ones) to neurotypical women more than make up for my face. People want to be noticed, that’s all it is.
I’m a woman, and I’m going to give you the most honest answer I can think of. In my 20’s, whenever I used to dislike another female without any valid reason, it was mostly out of jealousy. Maybe I thought she was prettier, or smarter, or whatever. Now I’m 38, and I’ve matured enough to appreciate the beauty, intelligence and good qualities in others instead of feeling insecure. This might not be the case, but I’m just giving you some insight based on my own life experiences. Keep in mind, many people go throguh this phase, and it’s a normal part of going out into the world and becoming an adult. However, not everyone outgrows it. Some will always feel threatened by others whom they perceive to be “better”, “smarter”, hell, even “different”, or “strange”. Some will even attempt to bring them down to feel better about their own insecurities.
Story of my life as an autistic woman. Idk. I have no idea. I try and mostly fail with other women. I can’t seem to have friendships with them 99% of the time.
I also experience the being picked on, talked about, called weird – quiet – told my facial expressions are weird … you name it… I don’t call or text enough, I’m too quiet, quiet, way too quiet, “why don’t I talk more”, etc… I get told I’m being one way when I think I’m being another way… I try so hard to be social and fail miserably despite still going into social situations with a positive mindset thinking if I just be myself and mask minimally (like no over the top stimming, info dumping about my interests, carrying a plush with me…) but I guess there’s something about me that most neurotypicals find offputting. Been like this all of my life. Even as a small child.
Women put more pressure on themselves and have a lot of pressure put on them from society to be kind at all times which looks like friendly outgoing conversation. Women are taught to smile all of the time in public, even when they’re uncomfortable. When a woman does not act on those parameters it can elicit confusion and anger. You behave differently. Being autistic you perceive differently. This difference makes you seem unapproachable and difficult especially women who are playing a social game you have no perception of. When people learn you’re autistic it’s like giving them a manual for not taking your actions personally. Learning more about the effects of societal pressures on women would have a similar eye opening affect for you. They aren’t being mean to you. It isn’t you.
I have found some women judge you before they know you because they think you are tying to be cute or get male attention, even if that’s not the case. Or even if it is, it’s not a reason to be mean in my opinion but some girls get jealous and act off that. It’s very sad. I’m not autistic, but I experienced this for the first time in college because I was around so many new types of people. People thought because I was nice, I was flirting, when in fact I was just taught to be kind to everyone, boys and girls. It made it easier to gravitate towards guys who don’t do that, but then they hate you more for it. It makes a very toxic environment. I’ve found it easier to just stay away from people who exhibit jealous and toxic behavior. They are typically acting off their own lack of self confidence.
Hello, NTf here! Sorry for the wall of text! I’ve heard a lot of people in the comments wondering what the women’s “code of conduct” is, and while there is no list, there are some things that will rub women wrong in my experience. Not saying you do all or even any of these, but based upon the reactions you’re describing, and personal experience, it’s possible. If this is not helpful, please ignore, just trying to possibly bring you some clarity and a path forward:
1: you mentioned it’s hard to mask sometimes while you’re tired or in a boring conversation. You’ve also mentioned that in general you’ve found more shared interests with men. Do you find yourself tuning out more obviously in conversations with women as opposed to men? I had a ND coworker that I was specifically trying to connect with, and I would start conversations about things I’d heard her talk about in an attempt to draw her in. Often she would literally just put on headphones and close her eyes without saying a word, while the same topics when talking to a man, she would discuss them for hours.
2: you mentioned you have a bubbly personality, do you find yourself behaving like that when everyone else in the room seems serious? That same coworker would actively derail other peoples training opportunities by monopolizing the conversation with the trainer, and steering it away from work. Any attempts to get back on track or continue learning were near futile, and gentle conversations about this behavior that went “hey, I’m sure you noticed I was upset earlier. I felt disrespected and I felt that you really disrupted my learning opportunity when you weren’t even training, just shadowing. Would you mind in the future if I were to say something along the lines of ‘would you mind if we talk about this later, I need to focus’” were interpreted as bullying and reported to our boss as such despite the fact that we went through the whole conversation, and seemed to come to an amicable conclusion at the end. If you’re the only person in the room being goofy, it probably is not a situation where being goofy is socially appropriate. On this topic, i think it’s important to note that women in the workplace are forced to act serious or they risk being passed up for promotions they deserve, they’re not assigned tasks they’re perfectly able to handle, their ideas and opinions are ignored, etc… Men suffer no such bias in the workplace. They’re free to be as goofy with you as they want without risk to their careers.
3: you mentioned a sort of “false shyness” you adopt. This is seen as a red flag to women for a few reasons, first, typically it’s very obvious that this behavior is disingenuous. Second, it’s one of the “traditional womanly” types of behaviors used to attract men or at the very least disarm them. And from the amount of men you get along with, it seems like it’s working. Using it excessively is unusual for a few reasons: first, from their perspective, you’re lying about your personality and benefiting from it. I imagine your workplace is a typical American one, i .e. Only men in positions of power. It looks like you’re deceitful AND sucking up, and that is a very threatening coworker to have because IF they decide to lie about you, they already have an in with the boss. Second, typically women do NOT use this false shyness with each other. It’s normally deployed against men to soothe egos that might be bruised by a competent, powerful woman. It’s like when you actually can open a jar but you ask a man to do it to make him feel needed in the moment. By using this tactic with women as well, you’re saying that you’re not willing to drop the mask and have a deeper more honest connection with them. You’re inadvertently keeping them at arms length and telling them that you see them as having fragile egos.
4: You mentioned finding more common ground with men, going so far as to say that men are goofy and fun while women are not. It seems like you’re assigning behaviors onto a group that you have not really gotten to know. Women are all sorts of things: goofy, weird, obsessed with obscure strange things, raunchy, etc… by writing that off and assuming that you’re so much different from NT women (in terms of interests and personality. Obviously being ND is a huge difference that must be difficult to deal with), but NT men are all of these things that you do seem to value (as you should, be proud of your personality and quirks!), you are saying that you don’t see the possibility of friendship with them. If that’s the case, why would/should they even try?
5: it’s been pointed out in the comments that men tend to excuse breaches of social norms if they find you attractive. It’s likely that the difference in reaction to the same behavior can be attributed to the fact that some of these men want a relationship with you, and given the masking tactics you’re using, you might be accidentally signaling that you want the same.
6: This one is difficult because being straightforward/blunt is not really something within your power to change, but being too honest about someone’s appearance, for example, or if someone made a mistake and you tell them it was a stupid thing to do, or maybe they’re having a conversation about something they’re interested in and you tell them you’re not interested in that, it really can shut down any chance of connection you might have. The previously mentioned coworker for example, did not know that I struggle with my body image, did not know that I was quitting smoking which can cause you to gain weight due to snacking, did not know that I’d had a really rough week emotionally, and she saw me eating a grilled cheese at lunch and said “ I wish I was like you and didn’t care about the calories in that. I just want to eat what I want, but I don’t wanna buy a whole new wardrobe”. That made me feel like garbage and it just was not necessary for her to say. I never asked for her input on my lunch. Be wary of being honest with negative opinions when your input has not been asked for.
Again, you may or may not do these things. I’m sorry to hear that you’re struggling to connect with the women in your life. This is not meant as an accusation, just maybe an explanation of how these things can appear from the other side, so that you can make informed decisions. If you decide it’s bull and you don’t want to change, that’s ok too. I honestly would suggest trying to be vulnerable with these women. If you feel like you can, let them know you’re ND. Make an effort to ask about their interests or their lives, or share with them about some stuff you’re interested in. Let them know if you’re tired and just don’t have the spoons, it will invite them to do the same. I hope this is helpful in some small way. Please know that even if you decide not to change your behavior, it’s ok. You get to be who you want to be and nobody can change that. You’re valuable and important and nothing will change that. If you do want to positively change your relationships, and it seems like you do, i hope that they will give you grace and be receptive to a re-definition of these relationships. Good luck, OP!
It’s the uncanny valley thing when you’re bad at masking. Men aren’t as invested in other people generally, so they probably don’t notice because they don’t care.