Please help, I’m not seeing my psychologist until next week!
Sparing the details, I’m foreign and people often tell me as a compliment that I’m more British than foreign. Since before COVID, I have had issues keeping work for a variety of reasons. I found that the work culture in the United Kingdom is impossible to navigate.
Few things, if you wouldn’t mind addressing for me. These all concern work.
– I know brews are a ritual for most. Is it rude not to have one when offered? I sometimes just don’t want it, I don’t mean to offend the person offering me by saying NO. I should probably make one, some might think I’m excusing myself because I’m saying I have social anxiety. I genuinely am anxious to even say “here’s your tea!”. I bring my flask of tea with lemon incented “piss” in it, because I like the refreshing taste that a hot brew does not offer.
– Sexual harassment is such a hard thing to navigate, everyone talks about it and I really don’t get how to have “banter” properly. I will often throw an innuendo without realising it is one. This is stressing me out.
– My boss says to me “don’t be late” and “no means no” … he also doesn’t like the word “but” … “is there a but coming?” What does he actually mean? Is he joking? I’m a late person however I’ve taken this job seriously since I started. I feel like he speaks English and I can’t understand him, and apparently, vice versa. Even though he’s alright!
– Last one on my tl;dr list, what is a “strong worded email”?
So I just find that saying less works, then people ask why am I so quiet! This is all making me turn to drink. Thanks, the awkward foreigner. I wanna know what love is.
20 comments
Banter goes both ways, if it goes one way it is just bullying.
Don’t be late.
Don’t make any form of comments that could be seen as sexual. Ever.
1) No absoutely not rude or weird at all to not want a drink; offering to make a round of brews/coffees would make you a star in my eyes, and I’d appreciate it all the more given your own lack of brew-drinking. Above and beyond, etc.
2) Everyone likes innuendos, but yes, time and a place, right people, etc. you will simply have to learn this and it will no doubt come with time.
3) No idea what you’re on about mate.
4) Strongly worded email = telling someone off.
I am somewhat wondering if this post is a joke, having answered these questions. In which case, bravo, very good trolling.
If you’re genuine, don’t worry about it.
PS
Becoming an alcoholic is probably the best way to fit in with Brits/Irish.
PPS
Asking about banter on reddit is a bad idea, fundamentally a lot of people on here hold anti-social opinions that do not reflect reality.
You don’t have to have tea when you don’t want it, just say ‘no thanks’. If you never want it because you bring your own lemon tea, just say that “thanks for offering, but I’ll stick to my weird lemon tea” – i.e. make a bit of a joke of it.
Do not attempt to ‘banter’. It’s a stupid concept , and if it’s leading you to make innuendos, just don’t.
Your boss wants you to be on time and don’t make problems. “is there a but coming” means he doesn’t want to hear “I could do that but I don’t have a pen”. if you need something to do your job, tell him what you need before it becomes a problem
A strong-worded email is something unambiguous. It’s “don’t do that” or “do that and exactly that”
1 – you can say no when offered a brew, particularly at work. Maybe try a phrase like “not quite due one yet” or “nah I’m for now but thanks”
2 – depending on the exact work setting sexual harassment is always a difficult one to some extent. Just remember that ‘intent’ is usually included, if you say something without intending it to be sexual and others make it sexual then it says more about them than you
3 – don’t know your boss so can’t really speak for him, but if it’s awkward then he could just be saying those things to fill a silence or make sure he’s seen to be managing you
4 – I do love a strongly worded email, in my experience they are usually long and rambling, saved and edited many times, left overnight to simmer in drafts, before just sending a very concise email devoid of emotion the next day
🎵 I wanna know what love is, I want you to show me
> Is it rude not to have one when offered? I sometimes just don’t want it, I don’t mean to offend the person offering me by saying NO.
It’s not rude.
> I really don’t get how to have “banter” properly. I will often throw an innuendo without realising it is one.
Doesn’t help that innuendo is also part of banter. It’s a skill that takes learning. Basically if multiple people are joining in, throwing insults to and fro and generally finding it funny it’s banter.
> My boss says to me “don’t be late” What does he actually mean? Is he joking?
No. Being late is the height of rudeness. If you’re taking the job seriously you’re at work 10 minutes before you’re supposed to start, not after.
> “is there a but coming?” What does he actually mean?
He’s waiting for whatever bullshit reason you’re going to come out with for what you’ve just said you could do you can’t.
> Last one on my tl;dr list, what is a “strong worded email”?
A complaint done in the traditional British polite but firm manner. Before the internet it would be a strongly worded letter.
No one judges you for not drinking brews, but if you make a round for those who are from time to time it’ll be appreciated.
Don’t know your boss but I interpreted him saying saying those things as tongue in cheek.
Sexual comments etc. you can only really do that with folks you’re very close to, the workplace probably not the best environment for that to be a thing.
“Don’t be late” can often just mean “be there”. Eg someone might say “drinks at 5, don’t be late”.
Unless you’re actually known for being late or unreliable in which case it’s a genuine reminder to be on time.
“Is there a but coming” is usually someone asking if you’re about to follow up a positive statement with something negative. It often happens if you sound unsure of your response. Eg if someone said “does this jacket suit me?” and you say “it looks nice..” they might assume you’re about to follow up with “it looks nice, *but* the other one is nicer”
1. Not rude to deny a brew, not at all. Brits won’t be offended if you pass up their offer. That’s just what it is, an offer. As you say, it’s a ritual here, so you may get the offer a lot, just say no and eventually they may remember you won’t take a brew.
2. Banter is hard, because it’s nuanced by nature. Individual people have levels of banter they’re comfortable with. You need to learn this by talking with them. If they use banter, try to match their level. Learn when to use banter by learning when your colleagues use it. There is no one rule here, but in general, keep stuff tame. Don’t go full sexual, or too insulting. Keep things as tame as possible until you grow comfortable with your colleagues. You’ll know once you’ve picked up on the atmosphere when/what banter is acceptable.
3. Your boss is just being a hard-ass. “Don’t be late”, means be punctual, or else. “No means no”, means his word is final, the phrase literally means when he says no, there is no subtext or second guessing, just no. And he “doesn’t like buts” means he wants you to get to the point and deliver your speech to him as clearly as possible. It’s just boss things, and he’s being authoritative. Just do what he says and try to stay on his good side. He doesn’t necessarily mean anything by acting this way, he’s just doing his job.
4. Strongly worded email is code for “An email that will be shitty, but in an underhanded/covert way”. A classic example of this is as follows.
1. => Hey, please find the details attached
2. <= Hi! It appears you haven’t sent me the details, you screwed up!
3. => Hi, *as per my previous email*, the details are attached. <– This is the “Strongly worded email”, it basically says “I’ve already done as you’ve asked… Look at my email properly next time before starting shit, dumbass”. The “As per my previous email” is a gut wrenching phrase to see in a strongly worded email. It’s basically an artform to be shitty in an email, but put it in the nicest most inoffensive way possible. A lot of colleagues take great pride in crafting their strongly worded emails. It’s a great opportunity to be a creative anarchist in the workplace.
>Sexual harassment is such a hard thing to navigate, everyone talks about it and I really don’t get how to have “banter” properly. I will often throw an innuendo without realising it is one. This is stressing me out.
I would try to hold back on these until you make sure you don’t severely overstep a line.
>My boss says to me “don’t be late” and “no means no” … he also doesn’t like the word “but” … “is there a but coming?” What does he actually mean? Is he joking? I’m a late person however I’ve taken this job seriously since I started. I feel like he speaks English and I can’t understand him, and apparently, vice versa. Even though he’s alright!
You shouldn’t come late. There is no excuse for that. So when you say “but I forgot my termos and the bus wasn’t on time”, its on you as you should make sure you go from home earlier – dont say but and don’t argue. And when someone says no, you should stop arguing/asking. I would say this is the most alarming/troubling for you.
Skip the banter, most people who get anywhere do the same, just relax.
‘Is there a but coming?’ means you may be a little challenging to your boss, not necessarily wrong but people don’t like having inconsistencies pointed out, its often not worth the explanation or beyond their control or level of fucks given.
Strongly worded email means written in complaint.
1. I’m good, thanks. I’ll be peeing like a racehorse if I have any more.
2. Funnily enough, my wife asked me for an example of an innuendo earlier, so I gave her one. Anyway, a friend who is an employment barrister once put it to me this way: would you feel comfortable with him make you explain to a Judge? No? Don’t say it then. (He also said if he had a pound for everyone who’d run a ‘banter defence’ he’d be considerably less rich than he is now.) The bottom line is if you’re not absolutely certain, keep quiet.
3. No idea.
4. Anything from threatening actual physical violence to using “Regards” instead of “Kind regards.” Needless to say, the latter is considerably worse.
Do you…have a flask of weak lemon drink? Is it really you?
1. No. It’s only rude if you accept hot drinks but refuse to make them when it’s your turn. If you don’t have anyone make you a brew, then you’re under no obligation to make anyone else a brew. In fact, a lot of people will be happy there’s one less person to cater for.
2. Sexual harassment in that context, is purposely trying engage someone in sexual conversation, etc. If you’re accidentally making innuendo, I really wouldn’t worry about it. The British can and will make innuendo out of anything.
3. “Don’t be late”, possibly said in a jokey way?, he means just that, “I’d prefer it if you arrived on time for work”. “No means no” depends on context but it’s basically saying that he won’t be pursuaded to change his mind once he’s said no. “But” is kinda used to add on something undesired to a sentence. E.g. “Yes boss I will send that report, but I accidentally deleted all the data” or “You’re doing really well at work, but we have to fire you due to budget cuts”
4. Instead of “kind regards”, you put “regards”. “As as I said in my previous email”, “I am disappointed to see that you were unable to meet the deadline”. That sort of thing is a “strongly worded email”.
3) i don’t like buts
After you apologise do you follow up with “…but…” and then give a reason/excuse? That can be pretty annoying, and give the impression that you aren’t genuine in your apology, or are trying to blame someone or something else
1. It’s not rude to decline, politely, an offer of tea/coffee. However, you may find that going to get one with someone is a good way to have a conversation and get to know them better, and that is often advantageous. Protip: you don’t actually have to drink much of the drink. Just sip a little of it every so often, then take it away with you. Much later, throw it away without drinking it. No-one is tracking your hot drink consumption.
2. Just avoid sexual innuendo. Some people like to “banter” but some people’s “banter” is just thinly disguised abuse and bigotry. If you want to make jokes, make them about yourself, or your dog, or some other situation that doesn’t involve denigrating anyone. I mean, I could tell a story about how a woman was badly dressed or something, if that was my style (and it isn’t) but I could also tell a story about how I nearly went to the wrong London airport for an international flight – one of those doesn’t involve making fun of anyone for what they are, it’s just an amusing mistake, and the other one is perpetuating stereotypes and mocking someone just for who they are. Which one seems better to you? Which one is less likely to get me into trouble? Which one will make most people think I’m a better or worse person?
3. If your boss says don’t be late, then he thinks punctuality is important. Get the hint: don’t be late – get there on time or early – or at least if you are forced to be late make sure you keep him up to date about why you’re late and make sure you’re clearly doing everything you can to get back on time. If he doesn’t like the word “but” then replace it with “and” or “also”. “We could do something but then whatever” becomes “We could do something and then whatever will happen. Instead, I suggest we do this other thing, then better will happen.” Your boss is being pretty clear with you here and you can do as he asks.
4. A “strongly worded email” is a telling-off, a rebuke, a (polite) threat, or similar.
Having employed many people who thought they were always “on time”, someone who always comes in just before their work starts will get a reputation with me for poor time management, especially if they seem rushed or flushed.
Do I hear a but coming, is in reference to someone who will rarely help out, “I would love to help cover Jane’s sick leave, but my friend’s cousin’s garden hedge needs trimmed”. They would rather you said no straight up than bullshit them.
Sexual harassment. Just don’t make banter if you’re not comfortable, if you fuck up and make innuendo by accident just straight up explain what you meant with it and don’t be afraid to laugh at yourself.
A softly worded email uses indirect language and is very considerate of the recipient’s feelings on the matter. A strongly worded email will be very direct, lay out the facts and have no consideration of how it comes across. Not necessarily hostile though but just straight to the point.
1) Probably easier to have an excuse – you shouldn’t need an excuse but it help. “I can’t, I’m driving” or (if by brew you mean tea) “oh, I’ve just had [dinner/lunch] I couldn’t fit any more in me”. It’s usually considered polite to accept tea (and slightly rude to refuse), but you could ask for water instead if you want to be polite back.
2) You probably can’t avoid innuendo, but you can opt-out from banter about appearance and relationships.
3) “Don’t be late” is either a polite piece of banter, or a subtle warning (“don’t be late [because you’re usually late, but if I say it like this it is banter and not rude or an explicit warning]!”). “no means no” makes it sound like your boss finds you pushy or rebellious. Hard to tell. Maybe expect less flexibility of the rules and methods in the job. You have ideas of how to do things better, but the boss will not listen. At lunch, or at a quiet time alone, you can ask your boss about these. That you think you do not understand, or that there is a hidden meaning to the phrase that you do not understand. Language barrier, etc.
4) A clear and direct explanation of what happened and why it is unacceptable. What went wrong and how you want it fixed. Not a polite “I noticed this and I think it would be better if X” – a direct “this happened, it is unacceptable because X, Y, Z. If this is not corrected or if this happens again, I will take further action and report this to A, B, C.”
Don’t be late literally means don’t be late, be on time.
No means no is an emphatic way of saying no, and implies that the asker is either repeatedly asking the same question, or is trying to persuade the speaker to change their mind. So if your boss says it to you, then it means that his mind will not be changed and you should drop it.
Is there a but coming is often said when the speaker feels that there may be an excuse or further issues on the horizon that are going to have an effect on the task.
Confused about the”no means no” bit, has someone had to tell you that? If so itv sounds like your making unwanted advances towards colleagues? Do not make romantic advances towards colleagues
This might help you with point two.
https://youtu.be/fepBOxqGzNQ